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Speeding - no NIP, but reminder letter., Long delay FtF as out of the country; Options?
lostinfrance
post Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 12:17
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Hello first post.....30years driving, clean license.

I have just opened a letter from Avon and Somerset Police SEU:-
Reminder letter dated: 21/7/2019
States speeding offence 01/6/2019 (exceeding 30mph, manned equipment)

I am the registered keeper, and do remember seeing a camera van in a layby, although not sure of exact location. Have checked my diary, so it was me and likely speeding as thought the locality was a 40 zone - checking on google maps turns out to be 30mph zone, due lamposts. So have no idea how much over the limit, as no NIP and cannot check online, as the PA website requires a PIN.

My trouble is I have not received a NIP, and only just received / opened the SEU reminder letter dated 21/7 as have been working away in France for extended periods and was then only holiday outside UK over the summer. So basically out of the country for 3months, returned home last weekend and collected post to find this nice surprise. Will have proof of my absence, eg boarding passes, receipts, credit card statements etc. Obviously, the 28days? from NIP even if never received (postal service is terrible in this area) and 7day limits from reminder letter are well past.

Have done nothing yet, but would guess a court summons is likely due failure to furnish.

Suppose, I could ring the SEU, to try confirm the exact speed / location etc, date of NIP and also explain I have been away, but doubt that will help in resolving anything in terms of likely FtF. Would be quite happy to admit the speeding offence and take a fixed penalty, but guess that option will no longer be in play.

Have spent the morning searching online and found this forum - I was not aware of what a dogs dinner this whole NIP / FtF process has become rather than a simple fixed penalty letter, pay-up early and forget, or pay-up more later and then forget - suppose the temptation to raise revenue for speeding using this sledgehammer and criminalise thousands along the way is enormous - but could still do with some advise on how to proceed, for example:-
1) Contact SEU, request copy NIP or online form to submit driver details as soon as possible.
2) Wait for court summons, to see if speeding + FtF charges are brought. Then consider things, re mitigating circumstances / long absence etc.

Could have further issues collecting snail mail, as am now back in France for another two weeks work, but suppose could investigate re-directing royal mail. Q. Does anybody know how court summons are sent out, eg recorded delivery, registered mail, brown letter??

Any advice appreciated !!

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post Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 12:17
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Jlc
post Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 12:28
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I would be naming the driver ASAP. There might be time to avoid a court hearing. (And you responded as soon as practicably possible)

What arrangements did you put in place to deal with your mail whilst absent? (Worth reading DPP v Whiteside)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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lostinfrance
post Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 15:15
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Thanks very much Jlc. The test case your refer was interesting reading, and confirms what I feared.

I had arranged for a friend picking up mail occasionally; basically asked her to look for any brown, menacing looking envelopes. There were a few of those, communicated to me via email or phone and all dealt with while i was away. The speeding reminder letter was sent in a white envelope, much the same as junk mail. The envelope carries a PO Box address in Bristol and a stamp 'time sensitive material', again much the same as marketing junk mail. Why on earth can't they post this in an official looking envelope with urgent stamp or even a government / police logo on it. Suppose the NIP was correctly sent in a similar envelop straight after the speed camera picked me up, but I left the country that weekend.

Anyway, I will try ring the SEU tomorrow and see if I can submit driver details online or over the phone. I guess they will refuse and say its been passed to the CPP / courts, but suppose nothing lost.
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Jlc
post Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 15:49
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I would say that is a weak argument about only checking brown envelopes...

See if you can recover the situation. You don't have to use their forms - you can supply (signed) confirmation of the driver in your own letter.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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lostinfrance
post Wed, 18 Sep 2019 - 19:10
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Thanks for the thoughts, I think that's good advice and will definitely try a phone call + letter naming driver. I have just checked-out the location where I think the mobile camera was located - absolute honeytrap; its in the top 10 for south Gloucester tickets - on a fairly new bypass, not a house or school in sight, no crossings, first time I'd ever driven down it.

Whats really galling, is I was going to collect a parcel from a couriers depot, only because a previous delivery had been lost by royal mail. So guessing I would have picked-up the NIP, if only they had only delivered it. icon_hang.gif
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blackcross
post Thu, 19 Sep 2019 - 03:48
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Doesn’t sound like a honeytrap, and the suggestion of a sledgehammer/money making wheeze is rot.

The system of street lights was likely to be pretty prominent, so in the absence of any indication to the contrary drivers would be on notice that a 30mph limit applies. What made you think the limit was higher?
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lostinfrance
post Thu, 19 Sep 2019 - 19:05
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Update>>>>with foreboding, telephoned the SEU this morning....but no, pleasant surprise!! They could not have been more helpful, sent me a copy of NIP by email as we talked and even extended the limit for settling the matter via attending a speed awareness if desired. Yes please!! I was doing 38 in a 30mph zone, location not exactly where I thought, although google maps is out of date and just maybe my memory is not what it was. For the driver awareness course, apparently its date of offence + 120days + a 2-week extension at SEU discretion if any communication problems occur. They even let me submit scanned copy by email to get things moving, providing I follow up with hard copy.

So, I have returned the NIP form, and now just need to arrange the awareness course date in the next three weeks.

Its actually made me re-assess my driving and for sure will be looking at how to better handle mail when away.

BTW, great forum, with really good information and helpful responsive members.
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Jlc
post Thu, 19 Sep 2019 - 19:48
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icon_thumleft.gif


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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