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Totting up ban with Court date impending.
monkeybrains74
post Thu, 16 Nov 2017 - 20:55
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Hi.

First of all, I am full aware it's my own doing and even though the last offence was a genuine error on my part, it is still my own fault

The last offence took place on the 12/10/17. The road is a duel lane i.e. 2 lanes going the same direction (and 2 the other) through a town and I assumed wrongly that it was a 40 limit when it was in-fact a 30.

A policeman with a radar caught me doing 35 and so received a FPN a few days later.

I send the form back and this morning received the below:

"A further endorsement of 3 penalty points makes you liable for disqualification through the 'totting up' process. This can no longer be dealt with at the fixed penalty stage and xxxxxx Police will contact you in due course"

I checked earlier on the DVLA site and this is showing the below:


SP30
Penalty points: 3
Offence date: 25 Feb 2017

SP30
Penalty points: 3
Offence date: 2 May 2016

SP30
Penalty points: 3
Offence date: 18 Oct 2014
Expired

This shows that at the time, I had 9 points but the 3 on the 18th October came off just 6 days after the date of offence.

I'm really asking if anyone has any advice regarding my court appearance. I wish to accept fault but would like to know what I can possibly do to reduce any ban. Should I get legal representation?

The DVLA site is now showing I only have 6 points, so I guess the 3 expired came off and any for this latest offence are yet to be added?
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The Rookie
post Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:16
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Why you thought it was a thirty is wholly irrelevant unless it constituted a defence to the allegation.

For totting each case that acquired the points can be contested, once you have totted up it’s just the EH that will be considered.

Entirely logical really as the court can’t revisit the preceding cases.

While you may think it’s unfair (I don’t and suspect you think that as you feel a ‘bit hard done by’) that’s not relevant, it’s the law.


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monkeybrains74
post Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:47
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:16) *
Why you thought it was a thirty is wholly irrelevant unless it constituted a defence to the allegation.


It definitely doesn't constitute a defense?

It also baffles me why they don't put a 30 speed limit sign up as like I said before, with it being 2 lanes in the same direction people still consider rightly or wrongly that it is still a 40.

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:21) *
QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:02) *
QUOTE (Logician @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 21:36) *
As already explained to you, you cannot get less than 3 points for speeding so you are wasting your effort on trying to mitigate your latest offence. You need to present an exceptional hardship case, you should say that is what you intend to do. Your EH case should not say anything about the offences that make up the 12 points, the court may not consider anything said to present any of the offences as less serious. The court can consider only hardship caused to yourself or others, and will consider hardship to others more significant than to yourself. So personal circumstances matter, how you came by the points and mitigation for the latest offence do not matter at all, cannot be taken into account, and waste the magistrates' time reading about them if you put them in.


Thanks for your help.

Just seems a little off that I can't explain why I thought it was still a 30.

Surely at the court then will ask if there's anything I have to say and I can raise the above then?

I’m not sure why you’re having difficulty with this point. You cannot mitigate the penalty to fewer than 3 points because that is the least the court can award. The court cannot take account of any exceptional hardship argument that seeks to lessen the seriousness of the offence.

QUOTE
(4) No account is to be taken under subsection (1) above of any of the following circumstances—
(a) any circumstances that are alleged to make the offence or any of the offences not a serious one,
(b) hardship, other than exceptional hardship, or
(c) any circumstances which, within the three years immediately preceding the conviction, have been taken into account under that subsection in ordering the offender to be disqualified for a shorter period or not ordering him to be disqualified.


You can say whatever you like but that is the law.


I guess it's not worth going in person then as it's going to be a waste of my time.

I have no case for Exceptional Hardship apart from having to take orders to the Sorting Office but I'm sure they'd just tell me to get a Taxi.

Thanks for your help all.

This post has been edited by monkeybrains74: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:47
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southpaw82
post Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:47
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QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:41) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:16) *
Why you thought it was a thirty is wholly irrelevant unless it constituted a defence to the allegation.


It definitely doesn't constitute a defense?

It also baffles me why they don't put a 30 speed limit sign up as like I said before, with it being 2 lanes in the same direction people still consider rightly or wrongly that it is still a 40.

"People" should know that two lanes doesn’t mean the limit is 40. That concept doesn’t exist in law or the Highway Code.


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monkeybrains74
post Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:54
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:47) *
QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:41) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:16) *
Why you thought it was a thirty is wholly irrelevant unless it constituted a defence to the allegation.


It definitely doesn't constitute a defense?

It also baffles me why they don't put a 30 speed limit sign up as like I said before, with it being 2 lanes in the same direction people still consider rightly or wrongly that it is still a 40.

"People" should know that two lanes doesn’t mean the limit is 40. That concept doesn’t exist in law or the Highway Code.


Everyone is overtaking me on that stretch of road when I'm doing 30.

Maybe a sign would help.
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cp8759
post Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 13:40
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QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:54) *
Everyone is overtaking me on that stretch of road when I'm doing 30.

Every time I have ever driven from here up to the 50 signs, every single car has overtaken me well over 30 with one exception (which is memorable enough that I actually remember it), doesn't change the fact that the police could prosecute everyone who's doing 35 or more.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Posts in this topic
- monkeybrains74   Totting up ban with Court date impending.   Thu, 16 Nov 2017 - 20:55
- - Logician   As you rightly say, it is points at the date of of...   Thu, 16 Nov 2017 - 21:54
- - andy_foster   Points are not automatically added to your licence...   Thu, 16 Nov 2017 - 21:56
- - I am Weasel   Have you done a Speed Awareness Course in the last...   Thu, 16 Nov 2017 - 21:57
- - monkeybrains74   Thank you all for your replies. Things are much c...   Thu, 16 Nov 2017 - 22:09
- - monkeybrains74   I've not got round to reading through everythi...   Fri, 17 Nov 2017 - 10:45
- - monkeybrains74   Just a quick update: I spoke to a nice chap a wee...   Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 12:37
- - NewJudge   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Sat, 3 Feb 2018 ...   Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 13:04
|- - monkeybrains74   QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 13...   Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 16:59
|- - AntonyMMM   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Sat, 3 Feb 2018 ...   Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 17:05
|- - monkeybrains74   QUOTE (AntonyMMM @ Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 17...   Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 14:05
- - southpaw82   Only your first point is relevant to a hardship pl...   Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 17:01
- - The Rookie   There is a clue in the name of ‘exceptional hard...   Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 17:06
- - monkeybrains74   Yes, that's why I'm expecting a ban.   Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 17:32
- - The Rookie   Well why not actually try on your hardship plea?   Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 17:42
|- - monkeybrains74   QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 17...   Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 18:14
- - The Rookie   A solicitor can’t create hardship, you either ha...   Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 18:20
|- - monkeybrains74   QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 18...   Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 18:23
|- - southpaw82   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Sat, 3 Feb 2018 ...   Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 18:56
|- - monkeybrains74   QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 18...   Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 23:56
|- - peterguk   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Sat, 3 Feb 2018 ...   Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 00:01
|- - monkeybrains74   QUOTE (peterguk @ Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 00...   Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 00:23
|- - peterguk   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Sun, 4 Feb 2018 ...   Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 00:32
|- - monkeybrains74   QUOTE (peterguk @ Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 00...   Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 00:51
|- - thisisntme   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Sun, 4 Feb 2018 ...   Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 00:52
|- - monkeybrains74   QUOTE (thisisntme @ Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 00...   Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 12:24
|- - stewpots   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Sat, 10 Feb 2018 ...   Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 14:14
|- - monkeybrains74   QUOTE (stewpots @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 14...   Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 21:22
- - NewJudge   There are not too many mitigating circumstances fo...   Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 18:28
|- - monkeybrains74   QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 18...   Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 18:59
- - NewJudge   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Sat, 3 Feb 2018 ...   Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 19:15
|- - monkeybrains74   QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 19...   Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 19:38
- - The Rookie   Because the hardship plea doesn’t take account o...   Sat, 3 Feb 2018 - 22:41
- - southpaw82   The minimum number of points the court can impose ...   Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 00:33
|- - monkeybrains74   QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 00...   Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 00:56
|- - peterguk   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Sun, 4 Feb 2018 ...   Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 02:18
- - notmeatloaf   As others have said, mitigation is pretty pointles...   Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 09:28
|- - monkeybrains74   QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 0...   Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 23:00
|- - cp8759   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Sun, 4 Feb 2018 ...   Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 15:42
- - Mayhem007   As has been implied by others the magistrates will...   Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 11:17
|- - Fredd   QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 11...   Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 11:50
|- - Mayhem007   QUOTE (Fredd @ Wed, 7 Feb 2018 - 11...   Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 10:41
|- - peterguk   QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 10...   Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 10:51
||- - Mayhem007   QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 10...   Fri, 9 Feb 2018 - 10:03
||- - The Rookie   QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Fri, 9 Feb 2018 - 11...   Fri, 9 Feb 2018 - 11:35
|- - Logician   QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 10...   Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 14:13
- - Logician   With computerisation, I expect online is best and ...   Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 14:11
|- - monkeybrains74   QUOTE (Logician @ Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 14...   Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 16:33
- - The Rookie   If you are going to be banned then they will invit...   Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 14:58
- - notmeatloaf   You can put what you like on the form, "I int...   Sat, 10 Feb 2018 - 17:26
- - Mayhem007   You will be expected to go into the witness box an...   Sun, 11 Feb 2018 - 10:16
|- - thisisntme   QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sun, 11 Feb 2018 - 10...   Sun, 11 Feb 2018 - 11:46
- - Lodesman   If your exceptional hardship plea involves others ...   Sun, 11 Feb 2018 - 12:17
- - Logician   As already explained to you, you cannot get less t...   Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 21:36
|- - monkeybrains74   QUOTE (Logician @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 21...   Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:02
|- - southpaw82   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 ...   Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:21
- - The Rookie   Why you thought it was a thirty is wholly irreleva...   Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:16
|- - monkeybrains74   QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 2...   Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:47
|- - southpaw82   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 ...   Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:47
||- - monkeybrains74   QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 2...   Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:54
||- - southpaw82   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 ...   Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:56
||- - progbloke   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 ...   Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 11:38
||- - cp8759   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 ...   Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 13:40
|- - Logician   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 ...   Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 01:15
- - monkeybrains74   Hi. First of all apologies for the image quality,...   Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 12:21
|- - Jlc   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Tue, 20 Mar 2018 ...   Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 12:28
|- - BaggieBoy   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Tue, 20 Mar 2018 ...   Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 12:28
- - monkeybrains74   I don't mean let off per se. In other words,...   Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 12:32
- - NewJudge   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Tue, 20 Mar 2018 ...   Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 12:56
- - monkeybrains74   Okay, thank you very much. I'm not sure wheth...   Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 13:19
- - Jlc   There's nothing to lose in attempting an EH pl...   Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 14:02
- - monkeybrains74   Yes, I don't expect to but worth a go   Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 16:37
- - notmeatloaf   The advantage to replying (other than a punt at EH...   Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 17:22
- - monkeybrains74   Yes, good point. I'll get the form sent out t...   Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 17:59
- - notmeatloaf   Depends on how busy they are. If you call the cour...   Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 18:18
- - monkeybrains74   Thanks. To be honest, the longer the better now a...   Tue, 20 Mar 2018 - 18:34
- - monkeybrains74   I've been thinking over the past day that this...   Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 12:17
- - nosferatu1001   You can try for exceptional hardship. however ther...   Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 13:05
- - monkeybrains74   Yes, I understand fully. I'm just thinking i...   Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 13:41
- - monkeybrains74   Just a quick update to let you know my court date ...   Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 11:10
- - NewJudge   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Thu, 19 Apr 2018 ...   Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 11:24
|- - monkeybrains74   QUOTE (NewJudge @ Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 12...   Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 11:34
- - The Rookie   As you can’t present your case before a single j...   Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 11:51
- - monkeybrains74   Okay, thank you.   Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 11:59
- - monkeybrains74   Just an update as forgot about posting on here. I...   Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 20:17
|- - southpaw82   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Thu, 20 Sep 2018 ...   Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 20:40
|- - peterguk   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Thu, 20 Sep 2018 ...   Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 20:41
- - monkeybrains74   The below comes from the end of case letter I got ...   Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 20:46
|- - peterguk   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Thu, 20 Sep 2018 ...   Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 20:54
|- - southpaw82   QUOTE (monkeybrains74 @ Thu, 20 Sep 2018 ...   Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 20:58
- - monkeybrains74   All I remember is the Solicitor pointing the Judge...   Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 21:08
- - southpaw82   That would be the wording I’ve just quoted.   Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 21:16
- - monkeybrains74   Indeed.   Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 21:25


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