PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Speeding case (roadside, with a gun) statement advice wanted
a73uk
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 17:51
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12
Joined: 8 Nov 2018
Member No.: 100,840



Hello all,

I was pulled over for speeding by a roadside policeman with a Speed Pro Laser 4 radar gun back on the 17/9/18. I received a summons in the post just over a week ago (posted to me 26/10/18) & I need some advice, as times running out.

Firstly, I`m being offered the choice of either submitting a postal admission of guilt, pleading guilty & going to court, or pleading not guilty & going to court.

I suffer with severe anxiety & struggle to speak in public, so I`d rather not go to court (this is also the reason I don't want to lose my licence, as I cant do public transport, so a ban is effectively a form of imprisonment for me).

So, my first question is this, can I be banned if I plead guilty via post? (it was a potentially bannable speed).

If the answer is yes, I will HAVE to go to court, so my second question is this:

Also, when he pulled me over, he pointed the guns display in my face & asked me to read the speed it was showing, which I did (& I still don't believe). in the officers statement I`ve now got, he`s stated the speed he registered was higher than the speed I'm 99% sure was on the guns display (2mph higher, if I remember correctly), & he`s stated this interaction is on his chest-cam..

I have no idea whether the charging officers footage is shown in court as evidence routinely?

Now, if I am correct, & there's a discrepancy between the speed on the chest-cam footage which does not match the speed in his statement, does it void the case due to there being reasonable doubt?

As I say, I`m not 100% sure of the number I read off his gun, although I told a few friends about it immediately after & the number I said wasn't the number in his statement, but, I obviously don't have access to his chest-cam footage.

Also, as i said, I don't believe I was doing the speed he had on his gun, and when I looked at my dash-cam footage after (which unfortunately was badly aimed, but does show enough), I was barely going any faster than the other 5 or 6 cars I was going past or approaching, in which case, everyone on that road was significantly over the limit. (a dead straight, long 4 lane dual carriageway with no pedestrian access or pavements, which I`ve been told by a police acquaintance is a great spot to catch speeders due to it having a stupidly low limit)

Oh, I have no points on my licence, I did attend a speed awareness course about 6 or 7 years ago, & I`ve had my license since 1990.

I also suffer with depression, & this whole situation has been causing me extreme anguish, & has destroyed my sleeping pattern.

Many thanks

This post has been edited by a73uk: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 18:02
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 17:51
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Logician
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 18:03
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,572
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



If you plead guilty by post, which nowadays is usually to a single justice, a proceeding which you cannot attend, if it is thought that disqualification should be considered you will be given a future date to attend in person. You cannot be disqualified in your absence before that is done. If you advise us of the alleged speed and limit, we can tell you if it is likely that disqualification will be considered.

A discrepancy between what you believe you remember of the reading and the speed now alleged will not void the case, you are charged with exceeding the limit, not going at a particular speed, the speed just affects the sentence, not guilt. A difference of 2mph is unlikely to make a difference, unless it is on the boundary of a speed range. The speed of other cars and whether or not action is being taken against them is quite irrelevant to your case.


--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
a73uk
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 18:32
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12
Joined: 8 Nov 2018
Member No.: 100,840



Thanks Logician,

I`m apprehensive to say, as it sounds so outrageous.. It was 63 in a 30 zone (he`s stated 65), which I know makes no difference, as its over double, & therefore bannable.

I still don't believe the guns reading, honestly, I felt like I was doing around 50 (which, if it wasn't for the yellow 30 limit warning signs half a mile before I got pulled over, anyone would think was a sensible limit for that road, not that thats a valid excuse).

This post has been edited by a73uk: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 18:36
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 18:52
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



That excess is unlikely to see 6 points - a ban is most likely.

There is a process for banning via SJP but it's not widely used. Therefore, your attendance is likely. Alternatively, you can pay for legal representation.

63 or 65 isn't going to make any real difference.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
a73uk
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 19:06
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12
Joined: 8 Nov 2018
Member No.: 100,840



Thanks Jlc,

I'm assuming as much, I am intending to get medical evidence to hopefully minimise a ban, as I`d be effectively imprisoned by a ban.

I cant afford legal representation. I thought a ban would be as well as points, not in lieu of them. How does that work with things like insurance if there's nothing on your licence?

And whats an SJP, sorry.

Thanks

This post has been edited by a73uk: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 19:08
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 19:10
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



QUOTE (a73uk @ Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 17:51) *
Also, when he pulled me over, he pointed the guns display in my face & asked me to read the speed it was showing, which I did (& I still don't believe). in the officers statement I`ve now got, he`s stated the speed he registered was higher than the speed I'm 99% sure was on the guns display (2mph higher, if I remember correctly), & he`s stated this interaction is on his chest-cam..

I have no idea whether the charging officers footage is shown in court as evidence routinely?

Unless you are looking to plead not guilty then there's nothing to discuss really - just straight to sentencing.

QUOTE (a73uk @ Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 17:51) *
Now, if I am correct, & there's a discrepancy between the speed on the chest-cam footage which does not match the speed in his statement, does it void the case due to there being reasonable doubt?

If you plead not guilty the officer could come to court and correct the 'error' - and as noted it's not a factor that's going to suddenly show you weren't exceeding 30mph.

QUOTE (a73uk @ Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 17:51) *
a dead straight, long 4 lane dual carriageway with no pedestrian access or pavements, which I`ve been told by a police acquaintance is a great spot to catch speeders due to it having a stupidly low limit)

I suspect it has street lighting? Thus making it a restricted road of 30mph unless there are signs to the contrary.



QUOTE (a73uk @ Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 19:06) *
I'm assuming as much, I am intending to get medical evidence to hopefully minimise a ban, as I`d be effectively imprisoned by a ban.

The court still have the discretion to give 6 points - any such evidence could be persuasive. (Even if the SJP reverts to a normal hearing it doesn't mean a ban is inevitable)

QUOTE (a73uk @ Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 19:06) *
I cant afford legal representation. I thought a ban would be as well as points, not in lieu of them. How does that work with things like insurance if there's nothing on your licence?

It's points or a ban - always a fine, costs and surcharge. Costs would be £85 for a guilty plea, well over £600 if contested. The surcharge is 10% of the fine, min £30. That excess would be around 150% of weekly relevant earnings (discounted by 33% for a guilty plea)

QUOTE (a73uk @ Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 19:06) *
And whats an SJP, sorry.

Sorry, Single Justice Procedure. (The postal procedure)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 19:11


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
a73uk
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 19:30
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12
Joined: 8 Nov 2018
Member No.: 100,840



Thanks Jlc,

I see, so the consensus is plead guilty via post, wait for a court summons & expect a likely ban? Is it likely to be before xmas I wonder..

I still can't believe the radar reading, I guess questioning the calibration of it with a solicitor is generally seen as futile & very likely to land you with a much bigger court cost fee?

I know I`m clutching at straws, sorry, I have to due to the consequences a ban will have on my life.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 19:36
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



If you know you were exceeding the limit then a not guilty plea would likely be futile. The officer will definitely recognise a car at twice the limit.

The device will be laser - unless you can show an error then it will be presumed to be operating correctly (as an approved device).

Going the 'calibration' route is unlikely to work - it's probably in date anyway and even outside that check it doesn't suddenly go inaccurate.

QUOTE (a73uk @ Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 19:30) *
I know I`m clutching at straws, sorry, I have to due to the consequences a ban will have on my life.

Understand - I think you should focus on providing the bench good reasons to give you points instead of a ban.

QUOTE (a73uk @ Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 19:06) *
How does that work with things like insurance if there's nothing on your licence?

Missed this - a ban has to be declared to your insurer. It is likely to load the premium more than points.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Logician
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 19:38
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,572
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



QUOTE (a73uk @ Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 20:06) *
I thought a ban would be as well as points, not in lieu of them. How does that work with things like insurance if there's nothing on your licence?


The disqualification is shown on your licence



--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
a73uk
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 19:45
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12
Joined: 8 Nov 2018
Member No.: 100,840



Ok, Got it.


Thanks for your help Logician & Jlc
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
OUYSINEP
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 19:31
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 6 Nov 2018
Member No.: 100,806



I personally wouldn't go down the rout of severe depression and anxiety affecting your life, DVLA state that this should be notified to them https://www.gov.uk/guidance/psychiatric-dis...ild-to-moderate
Mild to moderate anxiety and or depression need not be declared BUT if you are taking a certain medication or therapy for mild moderate depression then this becomes a declarable medication for E.G lithium (is know for treatment with bipolar also becoming common treatment for clinical depression and mood swings.), if you ever decided to use this as part of a defence in court this could lead magistrate to frown and shake their head. he could also be dissuaded from a points and opt to a ban and recommend that your fitness to drive be assessed.

Pleading guilty by post like above you will most likely receive a letter for your attendance to court, I wouldn't mention anxiety and depression as a defence or for consideration by the court, if they decide 6 points and a fine then they could also state your fitness to drive is also assessed because the speed of which you were caught they may think your judgment is poor due to your medical condition if you mention it.
I wouldn't open this door for them to do that personally.

Don't know what others think of this approach, if anyone thinks this is bad advice speak out I wouldn't be offended.

This post has been edited by OUYSINEP: Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 19:34
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
a73uk
post Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 07:54
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12
Joined: 8 Nov 2018
Member No.: 100,840



I understand Ouysinep, but I've not been sectioned for depression, nor have I attempted suicide, so it's debatable whether notification is necessary.

As far as anxiety is concerned, I've no idea why that would be a factor in your ability to drive?

Anxiety is the aspect I will be using, as this is why a ban would leave me virtually imprisoned in my own home, & prevent me seeing my kids, or even getting food etc (I`m not exaggerating either), and the fact these will likely increase my depression levels from livable to not..

Also, I`ve been leaving the paperwork (part of my problem) & only have 3 days left to get it all into them, so I`ve gone to https://www.makeaplea.justice.gov.uk/ to make an online plea, only to find the websites dead. I have no idea if this is permanent or just an hour or 2 of site maintenance (there's nothing to say on the justice website), so what if I don't get this in on time now? Its already causing me stress.

If it is permanent, its very irritating that they are still giving the option on their letters, lulling people into a false sense of security.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dwaynedouglas
post Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 08:51
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 96
Joined: 9 Nov 2016
Member No.: 88,346



Try here:

https://www.gov.uk/make-a-plea

It looks like the address that should be used is https://www.makeaplea.service.gov.uk/ .

I've never used it myself, but it's a link from the gov.uk website, so I hope it's legitimate!


--------------------
I'm not a lawyer or legally trained, my opinion is based on my experience - follow at your own risk.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
a73uk
post Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 09:35
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12
Joined: 8 Nov 2018
Member No.: 100,840



Thank you Dwayne, it did work, much appreciated.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
a73uk
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 14:35
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12
Joined: 8 Nov 2018
Member No.: 100,840



Hi all, I have an update.

I was away last week (with my kids, 22 miles away, as their Mums just had a fairly major operation), I`ve come back on Sunday to find a letter from the DVLA informing me that I`d been disqualified as of last Tuesday in my absence (I have had no correspondence, so had no opportunity to appear in court to plea for points/bigger fine instead of a ban) for 3 months.

So, I`ve been driving around, banned, without knowing it. Thank God nothing had happened, I dread to think what would have happened if I'd had an accident, or even just been pulled over. Quite possibly imprisonment.

I cant believe I've had a ban in my absence with no questions being asked about my dependency on my car. This is life changing enough for me (I`ve literally not left my front door since Sunday & I`m running out of food), but what if I was undergoing chemo or needed daily medical treatment & had no one to help? Or if someone was dependent on me taking them to daily medical treatment? Something like this could result in fatality, and yet no one asks a thing before handing out a judgement like that.. It just sums up how robotic, black & white, & heartless British law has become.

It says "if you appeal or apply to reopen this conviction and are successful, we will be notified and will remove this conviction from your driving record", but, there's absolutely no clue how to open an appeal. What do I do?

And if its taken this long to get a judgement, how longs it going to go through an appeals process? Longer than the actual ban? I obviously can't drive even if appealing..

On top of that, the hearing was in South East London, some 40 miles away, which would be hard enough for me to cope with with the ability to drive, without it, is impossible for me to get to, if the appeal will be held there too..

I`m really stuck.. To the point I'm under a virtual house arrest, so any help is appreciated.

Thanks.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 14:44
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



If you were convicted without your knowledge (i.e. of the hearing date/court) then you have to perform a Statutory Declaration to remove the conviction. (This is different to an appeal)

Contact the convicting court ASAP should you want to do this.

But there's an outside chance you may want to accept the current sentence. (If inevitable - or if favourable financials have been used)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 14:47
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



It's worth adding you can have the case transferred to your local court, there is no reason why the case needs to be heard 40 miles away.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
a73uk
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 15:14
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12
Joined: 8 Nov 2018
Member No.: 100,840



QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 14:44) *
If you were convicted without your knowledge (i.e. of the hearing date/court) then you have to perform a Statutory Declaration to remove the conviction. (This is different to an appeal)

Contact the convicting court ASAP should you want to do this.

But there's an outside chance you may want to accept the current sentence. (If inevitable - or if favourable financials have been used)


Hi Jlc,

I`ve just looked into that, it seems to be more geared towards appeals that intend to change the plea? I don't intend to change my plea, just the resulting "punishment"?

Although financially "challenged", I would much rather have a bigger fine & points than any kind of ban, due to the catastrophic effect a ban would (is already) have on my day to day life. As far as inevitability goes, I was speeding, not cited for dangerous driving as such, so given my medical situation, I`d hope (possibly/probably foolishly) that I`d have a reasonable chance of having a ban changed to points/increased fine by an understanding judge? That said, I`m acutely aware that logic/inevitability is all very much random in the legal system..

I'm now wondering how I'm expected to get to the doctors or hospital to get medical evidence to back up my request..

Thanks
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 15:19
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



A statutory declaration is used where you were unaware of the hearing. It is not dependent on you wanting to change your plea. The advantage it has is that once accepted the ban will be set aside and you can drive again.


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
a73uk
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 15:35
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12
Joined: 8 Nov 2018
Member No.: 100,840



QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 15:19) *
A statutory declaration is used where you were unaware of the hearing. It is not dependent on you wanting to change your plea. The advantage it has is that once accepted the ban will be set aside and you can drive again.


Ok, Thanks guys.

I`ll try to get them now.

Thanks again.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 21:12
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here