PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Custom House Street Cardiff Bus Lane
lewisdp
post Mon, 1 Feb 2016 - 22:21
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 21 Jan 2016
Member No.: 81,910



I have received a PCN for Contravention 34 Being in a bus lane in Custom House Street, Cardiff. I approached this junction from a different direction from other posts I have seen. I approached the junction from Saunders Road, Penarth Road – see attached map.
From the junction, I believe that the signs are not clear to a driver that Custom House Street is a bus lane. The signs whilst at 90 degrees to the pavement, cannot be properly seen and are too distant to be read. One of the signs is also hidden by a set of traffic lights. There are no signs prior to the junction, so nothing advising that there is a bus at the junction. Google earth images from 3 points approaching the junction are attached (location images are taken from are noted on the map).
Is the signage for approaching this junction sufficient?
I have noted the comments in previous posts about the incorrect wording of the PCN, and will use this in my appeal.
Regulation 20 - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/36...ulation/20/made date served
The enforcement authority is not named
I have a further query on the wording. The notice ‘Was observed at Custom House Street, City Centre’. I do not believe that ‘City Centre’ is an actual area of Cardiff – The Council Electoral Ward is Cathays. Is the location therefore invalid (also should it state Cardiff)?
The date / time of contravention on the PNC is 24/12/2015 at 12:12. However if I try using the online challenge, it states that the contravention was 19/01/2016 at 15:05:41 (which I believe is when the notice was issued. Does this inconsistent recording of the information have any impact on this?

Google street view images references on the map in order numbered 1 - 3
from Junction of Great Western Lane / Saunders Road Looking towards Custom House Street
from Junction of Saunders Road, Penarth Road, looking towards Custom House Street
From Penarth Road / St Mary Street Junction looking towards Custom House Street




Any assistance / advice appreciated.

Thanks

This post has been edited by lewisdp: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 - 22:27
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V  < 1 2  
Start new topic
Replies (20 - 38)
Advertisement
post Mon, 1 Feb 2016 - 22:21
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
lewisdp
post Sat, 23 Apr 2016 - 20:51
Post #21


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 21 Jan 2016
Member No.: 81,910



I hope this is OK saved as png rather than jpeg as this is another way of reducing the file size
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
Attached Image
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Sat, 23 Apr 2016 - 20:59
Post #22


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,268
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



No time at mo.

But you are correct about the Regs btw.



--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
lewisdp
post Sat, 23 Apr 2016 - 21:27
Post #23


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 21 Jan 2016
Member No.: 81,910



Many thanks Neil for confirming that I seem to be correct. I'm wondering on my next step - ask when they intend giving their decision, wait for reply ?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Mon, 25 Apr 2016 - 09:26
Post #24


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,268
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



I'll comment later.
Busy.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Mon, 25 Apr 2016 - 17:15
Post #25


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,268
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



If it were mine my first action would be to phone. Depends how accessible they are.
That is, to coyly ask the current position.

You certainly need to know because if a response has gone missing in the post you are at
risk of later problems.

If you can establish the position we will proceed to write, quoting the appropriate Reg and say you consider the matter closed.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
lewisdp
post Tue, 3 May 2016 - 15:23
Post #26


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 21 Jan 2016
Member No.: 81,910



Unfortunately, the only contact details on the council website are the Council Contact Centre. I've filled in there form asking for an update and will see what happens.

I have found an e-mail address for parking fines and I think it's the same department, so I'll also e-mail them to see if they can give an update

This post has been edited by lewisdp: Tue, 3 May 2016 - 15:24
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mad Mick V
post Tue, 3 May 2016 - 18:01
Post #27


Member


Group: Closed
Posts: 9,710
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Member No.: 11,355



Cardiff know they are in the clag with the form issued to the OP---that's why it has now been changed into something which better reflects the requirements of the legislation.

They will probably send an "under our discretion" letter or merely do nowt.

Mick
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Tue, 3 May 2016 - 21:13
Post #28


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,268
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



I've just noticed your PCN is the newer version.

Still lots wrong but if you based reps on MWJN then you'd be wrong on a few counts.

So, I wonder what they are playing at?


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
lewisdp
post Thu, 5 May 2016 - 08:43
Post #29


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 21 Jan 2016
Member No.: 81,910




Success

I've had an e-mail with a copy of their letter (dated 11/04/2016) with the response.

Upon consideration, I have cancelled the Penalty Charge Notice on this occasion.

This was the day before they had to respond under the Statutory guidelines !

I'm considering asking them for the reasons that they accepted my appeal and /or complaining to the Local Government Ombudsman
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Thu, 5 May 2016 - 08:47
Post #30


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,268
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



QUOTE (lewisdp @ Thu, 5 May 2016 - 09:43) *
This was the day before they had to respond under the Statutory guidelines !

According to the Regs.

Well done for having a crack. That's the new PCN version trashed then.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
lewisdp
post Thu, 5 May 2016 - 21:48
Post #31


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 21 Jan 2016
Member No.: 81,910



I've just e-mailed them

Thank you for sending me a copy of the letter (not received by post) confirming that my PCN has been cancelled.

I would like to know the grounds on which the Case Officer decided to cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.

Many Thanks

I doubt if they'll give the reason, so it will then be a complaint to the council, and after that the ombudsman (it's a different ombudsman system in Wales).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MWJN
post Mon, 9 May 2016 - 12:36
Post #32


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 77
Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Member No.: 81,479



Congrats Lewisdp

wink.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Mon, 9 May 2016 - 12:58
Post #33


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,268
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



I wonder if either of you, Lewis or MWJN, might have anything to add here >
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=105725

Ta.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
lewisdp
post Mon, 16 May 2016 - 21:52
Post #34


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 21 Jan 2016
Member No.: 81,910



Just had this response from Cardiff Council

After further discussion with the Officer who responded to your challenge, I can confirm that while the officer was satisfied that the your vehicle was found to be driving in a bus lane and it was not authorised to do so, the mitigating circumstances which you included in your appeal were taken into account regarding the junction that you exited and it was for this reason that your appeal was allowed.

Still no admission that the documentation does not comply with the regulations.

So it seems that they accept that the signage is insufficient if you enter this bus lane from the front of the train station - Sanders Road / Penarth Road.

When I looked last week, no additional signage had been put up.

Complaint to ombudsman about what would seem to be known problems with signage at this junction and PCNs still being issued ?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Windnwaterboy
post Wed, 29 Mar 2017 - 21:20
Post #35


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1
Joined: 29 Mar 2017
Member No.: 91,197



I was caught on the bus lane after entering Custom House Street from St Mary Street. I kept the bus lane to my left. However as you fork left, keeping the bus lane to your left, you end up on the wrong side of the street facing oncoming traffic. I argued that the signage and road layout led me to believe, very reasonably, that I was taking a left fork and that I was entitled to be where I was. However I was now on the wrong side of the road facing oncoming traffic and for safety reasons, I had to then move onto the bus lane. I first appealed to the council who rejected my appeal despite the photo, satellite and video evidence. I then went to the independent adjudicator I provided significantly more evidence in the form of video footage and also Google street views and Google satellite views. I also participated in a telephone tribunal. I won.

See the following attachments

Attached File  Bus_Lane.pdf ( 1.13MB ) Number of downloads: 264

Attached File  Bus_Lane_2.pdf ( 317.05K ) Number of downloads: 164

Attached File  Decision_QC00028_1702.pdf ( 60.09K ) Number of downloads: 179


I also submitted a movie that showed that when a bus is on the bus lane to your left, any relevant signage is obscured from the drivers view. Unfortunately I have no more space to upload that in the post

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
stamfordman
post Wed, 29 Mar 2017 - 21:26
Post #36


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 23,582
Joined: 12 Feb 2013
From: London
Member No.: 59,924



You need to start your own thread. There are also other threads on this one to search for.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
John U.K.
post Wed, 29 Mar 2017 - 22:30
Post #37


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,308
Joined: 9 May 2014
Member No.: 70,515



QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 29 Mar 2017 - 21:26) *
You need to start your own thread. There are also other threads on this one to search for.


I think (if you are replying to the preceding post from Windnwaterboy) that he, having successfully appealed, was posting the papers to help others and especially the OP here who wishes to raise the matter further.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
stamfordman
post Wed, 29 Mar 2017 - 22:40
Post #38


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 23,582
Joined: 12 Feb 2013
From: London
Member No.: 59,924



QUOTE (John U.K. @ Wed, 29 Mar 2017 - 23:30) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 29 Mar 2017 - 21:26) *
You need to start your own thread. There are also other threads on this one to search for.


I think (if you are replying to the preceding post from Windnwaterboy) that he, having successfully appealed, was posting the papers to help others and especially the OP here who wishes to raise the matter further.



Ah OK - think I was fooled by reading the wrong message.

Made me think though - it would be useful if everyone starting thread had to enter certain details in the title - location, type of contravention, council - which would help consolidate experience and searching greatly.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Wed, 29 Mar 2017 - 23:10
Post #39


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,268
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



It probably should be separated as the original OP hasn't updated for 10 months and
this is general info, albeit good news.

And well done Windnwaterboy of course blob7.gif blob6.gif


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V  < 1 2
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 29th March 2024 - 05:53
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here