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PCN 01 Manchester City Council, PCN 01 Manchester City Council
Qazitory
post Sun, 9 Sep 2018 - 17:35
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My partner pulled up near the runway of Manchester Airport to enter the instructions into his sat nav. Didn't get out of the car or turn the engine or lights off. We were there less than a minute and an unmarked van pulled up and blocked us in. The man left his car and started taking pictures and then handed a ticket to my partner (driver). He refused to explain to the reason for the ticket and went back to his car. We believe the reason was the double yellow lines on the road.

It resulted in us ringing for the police etc so I've been advised to make an official complaint but I need to still contest the ticket.

The oberservation time is only two minutes but the van parked behind us and blocked us in. Is that grounds to contest?

The street is here: https://goo.gl/maps/vuVHtswPDW62

There was a was sign that is missing from Google Maps but it mentioned about CCTV in operation.
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post Sun, 9 Sep 2018 - 17:35
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 20:19
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 20:57) *
adjust this for truthful details - do not lie but do not volunteer detail other than the basic facts in your favour. and don't make it longer!

Dear parking,

I wish to challenge PCN no. xxxxxx on the following grounds.

I and family members drove into xxxx road to view plane movements at the airport but before we found a place to park we found ourselves boxed in by a van [unmarked van??]. The van driver served us with what we now know is the PCN, which I enclose a picture of, but as you can see it is unreadable and I understand that without details it cannot be compliant and therefore must be cancelled.

I also challenge on the basis that your civil enforcement officer did not identify himself and did not appear to be wearing uniform. As he had boxed us in, we had no alternative but to call the police as we thought this was a con. The police attended and ascertained he is your employee but we found this experience intimidating and surely not compliant with protocol.

I look forward to your early cancellation of the PCN and an apology for the behaviour of your employee and trust you will ensure that this will addressed in your procedures.

yours


I would be a bit more assertive. Not he did not appear. He was not in an identifiable uniform and did not comply with s76(3) as noted above and as the regulations have not been complied with the PCN is invalid.


If you say it appears not then they easily say yes he was and failing to comply with the law is not breach of protocol
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stamfordman
post Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 20:27
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Well in challenges most OPs shouldn't really be quoting regs if they want to seem genuine is my view.

So change to:


I also challenge on the basis that your civil enforcement officer did not identify himself and did not wear a uniform. As he had boxed us in, we had no alternative but to call the police as we thought this was a con. The police attended and ascertained he is your employee but we found this experience intimidating and surely your employee did not comply with the regulations concerning showing ID and wearing a uniform.
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 20:31
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 21:27) *
Well in challenges most OPs shouldn't really be quoting regs if they want to seem genuine is my view.

So change to:


I also challenge on the basis that your civil enforcement officer did not identify himself and did not wear a uniform. As he had boxed us in, we had no alternative but to call the police as we thought this was a con. The police attended and ascertained he is your employee but we found this experience intimidating and surely your employee did not comply with the regulations concerning showing ID and wearing a uniform.


forget did not identify himself. he is not required to


QUOTE
challenges most OPs shouldn't really be quoting regs if they want to seem genuine is my view.


What is disingenuous about quoting a regulation?
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stamfordman
post Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 20:52
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No worries PMB - just amend what I did as I bow to your expertise. The OP is clearly floundering and it only takes a minute to condense the challenge.

Disingenuous doesn't quite mean what you think though - it's about pretending to not know what you know. As the OP doesn't know, pretending they do can appear more like they didn't write it.... which would be true.

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Qazitory
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 06:20
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QUOTE (nextdoor @ Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 20:15) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 19:58) *
Just keep it simple.

+1. Less is more

There are always going to be exceptions to the rule, but as a rule of thumb, I think that if you can't present grounds for cancelling on a single side of A4, you're probably grabbing at straws in the first place.


The trouble I have is I'm putting in a complaint at the same time so don't I have to detail as much as I can?

QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 21:19) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 20:57) *
adjust this for truthful details - do not lie but do not volunteer detail other than the basic facts in your favour. and don't make it longer!

Dear parking,

I wish to challenge PCN no. xxxxxx on the following grounds.

I and family members drove into xxxx road to view plane movements at the airport but before we found a place to park we found ourselves boxed in by a van [unmarked van??]. The van driver served us with what we now know is the PCN, which I enclose a picture of, but as you can see it is unreadable and I understand that without details it cannot be compliant and therefore must be cancelled.

I also challenge on the basis that your civil enforcement officer did not identify himself and did not appear to be wearing uniform. As he had boxed us in, we had no alternative but to call the police as we thought this was a con. The police attended and ascertained he is your employee but we found this experience intimidating and surely not compliant with protocol.

I look forward to your early cancellation of the PCN and an apology for the behaviour of your employee and trust you will ensure that this will addressed in your procedures.

yours


I would be a bit more assertive. Not he did not appear. He was not in an identifiable uniform and did not comply with s76(3) as noted above and as the regulations have not been complied with the PCN is invalid.


If you say it appears not then they easily say yes he was and failing to comply with the law is not breach of protocol


Thank you. That does read a lot better so it might be worth me replying as two separate letters - one being a complaint and the other the appeal.
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stamfordman
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 08:04
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QUOTE (Qazitory @ Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 07:20) *
it might be worth me replying as two separate letters - one being a complaint and the other the appeal.


Yes, you can say in your challenge that you will separately be making a formal complaint about the conduct of the civil enforcement officer.
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 12:47
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You MUST keep your challenge against the PCN and complaint to the council and/or police as two separate matters. I would not even mention in your challenge that you are making a complaint.
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Qazitory
post Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 12:49
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Thanks for everyone's help with this.

Is there a timescale that I should hear back from them?

As it's been over three weeks now and I've not heard anything back from the Council - either about the appeal or the complaint.

I didn't want to chase it up incase "no news is good news"?
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cp8759
post Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 12:52
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QUOTE (Qazitory @ Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 13:49) *
Thanks for everyone's help with this.

Is there a timescale that I should hear back from them?

As it's been over three weeks now and I've not heard anything back from the Council - either about the appeal or the complaint.

I didn't want to chase it up incase "no news is good news"?

For an informal challenge there is no deadline for them to respond, in fact they don't have to respond at all. They have six months from the date of the contravention to issue a Notice to Owner.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Qazitory
post Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 12:58
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 13:52) *
QUOTE (Qazitory @ Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 13:49) *
Thanks for everyone's help with this.

Is there a timescale that I should hear back from them?

As it's been over three weeks now and I've not heard anything back from the Council - either about the appeal or the complaint.

I didn't want to chase it up incase "no news is good news"?

For an informal challenge there is no deadline for them to respond, in fact they don't have to respond at all. They have six months from the date of the contravention to issue a Notice to Owner.


Thanks, I won't chase it then and await confirmation from them either way.
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Incandescent
post Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 19:24
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Just to be certain.....
Is your V5C up-to-date ? We see too many case where OPs get bailiffs at their door because the council have sent all the statutory documents to the V5C address, (as they must under the process), but the OP no longer lives there but has failed to update the V5C. (Notice to Owner, Charge Certificate, and Order for Recovery)
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Qazitory
post Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 20:58
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 20:24) *
Just to be certain.....
Is your V5C up-to-date ? We see too many case where OPs get bailiffs at their door because the council have sent all the statutory documents to the V5C address, (as they must under the process), but the OP no longer lives there but has failed to update the V5C. (Notice to Owner, Charge Certificate, and Order for Recovery)


Yes my address is correct as I haven't moved since I bought the car.
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peterguk
post Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 21:14
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QUOTE (Qazitory @ Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 21:58) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 20:24) *
Just to be certain.....
Is your V5C up-to-date ? We see too many case where OPs get bailiffs at their door because the council have sent all the statutory documents to the V5C address, (as they must under the process), but the OP no longer lives there but has failed to update the V5C. (Notice to Owner, Charge Certificate, and Order for Recovery)


Yes my address is correct as I haven't moved since I bought the car.


Have you got the V5C in front of you, or are you assuming it's correct?


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