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WAZE App, Police Notifications
trubster
post Wed, 6 Aug 2014 - 14:52
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https://www.waze.com

Now then, AFAIK, if you flash other motorists to notify them of a speed trap and get caught, you can be prosecuted for it LINKY

This app (Which could be used by a passenger) allows you to report speed traps, of which many are reported on a daily basis.

So.... the question is, are you committing an offence in reporting the locations of speed traps?


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post Wed, 6 Aug 2014 - 14:52
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fedup2
post Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 15:01
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QUOTE (sgtdixie @ Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 12:52) *
It isn't about slowing people down to a legal speed. It is about encouraging people not to speed and catching them if they do.

Take the analogy of a burglar. The Police patrol an area trying to dissuade people from breaking into property. If someone does commit a burglary and is then tipped off the Police are about and thus they make their escape undetected the person tipping off the burglar may well commit an offence. If however he tells Billy Burglar the Police are about before he commits the crime he has done nothing wrong. The same application as in speeding cases.



where is the link between a burgler and someone doing a few mph over what the sign says?

In ALL burglarys there is a victim,in almost all cases of speeding there isnt.

This post has been edited by fedup2: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 15:02
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sgtdixie
post Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 15:33
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QUOTE (fedup2 @ Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 16:01) *
QUOTE (sgtdixie @ Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 12:52) *
It isn't about slowing people down to a legal speed. It is about encouraging people not to speed and catching them if they do.

Take the analogy of a burglar. The Police patrol an area trying to dissuade people from breaking into property. If someone does commit a burglary and is then tipped off the Police are about and thus they make their escape undetected the person tipping off the burglar may well commit an offence. If however he tells Billy Burglar the Police are about before he commits the crime he has done nothing wrong. The same application as in speeding cases.



where is the link between a burgler and someone doing a few mph over what the sign says?

In ALL burglarys there is a victim,in almost all cases of speeding there isnt.

If you don't understand the analogy get a child to explain it to you. It really is that simple.
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minotaur
post Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 17:14
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QUOTE (sgtdixie @ Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 15:30) *
Misuse of headlights is an offence in it's own right.


So is just about everything to do with owning or operating a motor vehicle.

To paraphrase someone else's signature - "There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist."

QUOTE (sgtdixie @ Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 16:33) *
QUOTE (fedup2 @ Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 16:01) *
QUOTE (sgtdixie @ Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 12:52) *
It isn't about slowing people down to a legal speed. It is about encouraging people not to speed and catching them if they do.

Take the analogy of a burglar. The Police patrol an area trying to dissuade people from breaking into property. If someone does commit a burglary and is then tipped off the Police are about and thus they make their escape undetected the person tipping off the burglar may well commit an offence. If however he tells Billy Burglar the Police are about before he commits the crime he has done nothing wrong. The same application as in speeding cases.



where is the link between a burgler and someone doing a few mph over what the sign says?

In ALL burglarys there is a victim,in almost all cases of speeding there isnt.

If you don't understand the analogy get a child to explain it to you. It really is that simple.


It just demonstrates than an analogy should not be stretched too far.


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Rallyman72
post Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 17:38
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How do you define misuse of headlights then?

Inappropriate flashing
Incorrect alignment
Faulty bulb(s)

If plod have the time to enforce the first why don't they do something about the other two - preferably starting with their own cars ....


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glasgow_bhoy
post Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 18:15
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QUOTE (Rallyman72 @ Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 18:38) *
Faulty bulb(s)

If plod have the time to enforce the first why don't they do something about the other two - preferably starting with their own cars ....

Lol I think 3 out of 4 of the vans/cars in my town would be out of action if they weren't allowed on the road with dodgy bulbs. There was a van which drove for nearly 3 months without a left headlight operational- I was amazed they left it so long, but it was definatly the same van as it had a distinctive registration I always giggled at.
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facade
post Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 19:02
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Why did he not simply stick to the story that he was flashing his headlights to let other road users know that he was there, because as we all know, flashing your headlights has only one meaning, as in highway code rule 110.

(Why he would want to alert someone on the other side of a dual carriageway to his presence is a bit of a mystery though )


No doubt he convicted himself by proudly admitting obstruction. rolleyes.gif
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stingo
post Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 20:55
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QUOTE (fedup2 @ Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 16:01) *
QUOTE (sgtdixie @ Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 12:52) *
It isn't about slowing people down to a legal speed. It is about encouraging people not to speed and catching them if they do.

Take the analogy of a burglar. The Police patrol an area trying to dissuade people from breaking into property. If someone does commit a burglary and is then tipped off the Police are about and thus they make their escape undetected the person tipping off the burglar may well commit an offence. If however he tells Billy Burglar the Police are about before he commits the crime he has done nothing wrong. The same application as in speeding cases.



where is the link between a burgler and someone doing a few mph over what the sign says?

In ALL burglarys there is a victim,in almost all cases of speeding there isnt.


What's worse a 100 friends that have committed speeding or a 100 friends that have burgled,

In reality your more closer to someone that has committed speeding than have burgled choosing your friends wisely is not always easy

Analogies and statistics are nothing when their broken down tongue.gif

This post has been edited by stingo: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 20:58
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mickR
post Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 21:34
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QUOTE (minotaur @ Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 18:14) *
It just demonstrates than an analogy should not be stretched too far.


ive got analogy to elastic ! now thats stretching the point tongue.gif


This post has been edited by mickR: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 21:34
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JP1978
post Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 22:40
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QUOTE (sgtdixie @ Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 16:33) *
If you don't understand the analogy get a child to explain it to you. It really is that simple.



You do really enjoy belittling people don't you?

Can people not just answer without willy waving?

This post has been edited by JP1978: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 22:41
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sgtdixie
post Fri, 8 Aug 2014 - 06:58
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QUOTE (JP1978 @ Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 23:40) *
QUOTE (sgtdixie @ Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 16:33) *
If you don't understand the analogy get a child to explain it to you. It really is that simple.



You do really enjoy belittling people don't you?

Can people not just answer without willy waving?

Because fedup is a troll. He makes ridiculous statements to try and start an argument and his agenda is to say to every thread that speeding is right and the only problem on roads are the MLOC who stop him in his heavy from sitting on him limiter all day. So if he says something sensible he will get a sensible answer. If he doesn't he can expect sarcasm. Perhaps you might want to criticise him for the abuse he sends my way regularly being anti Police.
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crashdetective
post Fri, 8 Aug 2014 - 07:43
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Yeah but hes not a troll SD, he's the genuine article and I am a member of his fan club :-)
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fedup2
post Fri, 8 Aug 2014 - 07:50
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My my .

I'm not anti speeding butthe speed limits are no longer sensible,and it's enforcement is out of proportion because it's easy money. You know that better than most as u earn money from tutoring these useless courses that have no impact on safety whatsoever infact as I've said it before it's having a negative effect turning the do gooders into dangerous driver who now belive it's their place to stop others from what they believe is speeding and they do it by any means possible no matter what the cost.
Typical of speed awareness tutors you evade every question that gets a bit tricky and replace it with more insults. I truley hope u are retired the force and the public don't need people like you..
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sgtdixie
post Fri, 8 Aug 2014 - 08:11
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QED
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jdh
post Fri, 8 Aug 2014 - 11:12
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I have a love/hate relationship with Waze, it annoys me that I can't search for an address whilst driving but it asks me to fill in surveys and dismiss adverts. It's also quite fussy about routing, if you stray off for whatever reason it often has a hissy fit and just drops the destination altogether, forcing you to search for it again, which you can't do as a driver without some extra interaction to tell it you're a passenger.
On the plus side as long as there's other users around feeding it with info it's very realtime on jams/delays/accidents, better than TomTom in that respect.
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southpaw82
post Fri, 8 Aug 2014 - 16:24
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QUOTE (sgtdixie @ Fri, 8 Aug 2014 - 07:58) *
QUOTE (JP1978 @ Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 23:40) *
QUOTE (sgtdixie @ Thu, 7 Aug 2014 - 16:33) *
If you don't understand the analogy get a child to explain it to you. It really is that simple.



You do really enjoy belittling people don't you?

Can people not just answer without willy waving?

Because fedup is a troll. He makes ridiculous statements to try and start an argument and his agenda is to say to every thread that speeding is right and the only problem on roads are the MLOC who stop him in his heavy from sitting on him limiter all day. So if he says something sensible he will get a sensible answer. If he doesn't he can expect sarcasm. Perhaps you might want to criticise him for the abuse he sends my way regularly being anti Police.



QUOTE (crashdetective @ Fri, 8 Aug 2014 - 08:43) *
Yeah but hes not a troll SD, he's the genuine article and I am a member of his fan club :-)



QUOTE (fedup2 @ Fri, 8 Aug 2014 - 08:50) *
My my .

I'm not anti speeding butthe speed limits are no longer sensible,and it's enforcement is out of proportion because it's easy money. You know that better than most as u earn money from tutoring these useless courses that have no impact on safety whatsoever infact as I've said it before it's having a negative effect turning the do gooders into dangerous driver who now belive it's their place to stop others from what they believe is speeding and they do it by any means possible no matter what the cost.
Typical of speed awareness tutors you evade every question that gets a bit tricky and replace it with more insults. I truley hope u are retired the force and the public don't need people like you..



QUOTE (sgtdixie @ Fri, 8 Aug 2014 - 09:11) *
QED


To be frank, I'm sick of the Fedup2/Dixie show. Fair warning guys, I'm just going to delete your posts/put you on mod preview/ban you as I see fit. The constant arguments aren't constructive and add nothing. Take it to PM if you really have to vent at each other.


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sgtdixie
post Fri, 8 Aug 2014 - 16:37
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Fair enough.
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Oscar21
post Fri, 8 Aug 2014 - 21:13
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Whats the difference in flashing a "possibly" speeding motorist to warn him of a speedtrap or slowing down with a speeding car behind you because you know there is a trap just round the corner because you went past it the other way 10 mins before. Is anyone really suggesting you have to carry on at the speed you are going so as not to prevent the police from catching the speeding motorist behind.

What if you are walking through town and you spot someone battering a child, if you know the police are on route are you supposed to leave the violent bully to it???

I will always continue to flash other motorists of a speed trap and if the petty police want to make something of it then thats life.

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sgtdixie
post Sat, 9 Aug 2014 - 07:12
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Your actions are split into 2 parts. Actus rea and mens rea. This means what you physically do and your intend in doing that action.
If you see an assault in progress your intent and action will be to stop the victim suffering more injury. If the method you choose it to shout that the Police are on the way you won't commit the offence because your intent is not simply to assist the offender escape.

If you are speeding and slow down your intent is to avoid being caught and if that slows everyone else down that is a by product.

Case law is very clear. If you see someone speeding towards a speed trap and you warn them they are about to be caught you will commit the offence of obstruct Police. You may view that as petty and you may continue to flash a warning, that is your opinion and choice. You do so knowing it is an offence and if caught, which is a vanishingly small chance, you know the penalty. It is no different to the choice thousands of motorists make when they deliberately speed.
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Oscar21
post Sat, 9 Aug 2014 - 11:02
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The crux from what I can see is how do they or indeed me know they were speeding in the first place? When I flash someone I'm not looking what speed they are doing, I flash everyone as soon as I see them. What I am telling them is "don't speed" not "slow down".

Am I right in saying that if I flash someone who is within the speed limit then no obstruction is caused? Its like you pointed out, if you tell a robber mid robbery the police are on the way then that's an offence, if you say the same thing to someone just walking down the street then you have done nothing wrong. If that is the case then how can the police prove the vehicle I have flashed was speeding in the first case, and if they can then they already have the evidence so there is no obstruction.

Further how can the police prove I knew the driver was speeding when the public are told you need special training to be able to accurately guess the speed of a vehicle. If I didn't know the car was speeding then there can be no intent to cause an obstruction.
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sgtdixie
post Sat, 9 Aug 2014 - 13:07
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As has been explained several times it is a requirement that the vehicles warned were committing an offence in order for it to be an offence. As can be seen by the linked case it is quite possible to prove the offence. Not easy that is true but it happens.

In fact you don't need any training to be of the opinion a vehicle is speeding. The opinion of 2 people will be sufficient. In many fatal collisions evidence from witnesses as to their belief a vehicle was well above the speed limit has been accepted by the courts.

Personally I don't have a big problem with people warning of speed traps. It happened most times I did enforcement. Where it becomes worthy of action is someone who sets their stall out to disrupt enforcement by continual warning of motorists. This can include obstructing the use of the device, putting signs up or parking up and flashing oncoming traffic.
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