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Beckham & Freeman, Popcorn time?
little-freddie
post Tue, 4 Sep 2018 - 20:34
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/articl...chnicality.html

... Is he just taking Beckham's money, I wonder?? Peterguk any thoughts??

This post has been edited by little-freddie: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 - 20:54
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post Tue, 4 Sep 2018 - 20:34
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peterguk
post Tue, 4 Sep 2018 - 21:04
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His lawyer Nick Freeman told Wimbledon Magistrates' Court there was "no issue" with the speed alleged but said the notice had arrived one day too late.

Mr Freeman, commonly known as Mr Loophole, told the case management hearing the notice of intended prosecution was "defective" because it arrived one day outside the statutory 14 days.
"I'm not disputing it wasn't served. I'm saying it was served out of time," he said.

The trial is due to take place on 27 September at Wimbledon Magistrates Court.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-45412101

Assuming the police didn't mess up and post it late, it will be interesting to see how long it is alleged the NIP was in the post for.

I would have thought the Bentley would be leased - so the first NIP in the chain would have gone to a finance or management company, not DB. Which would involve someone from the finance co. giving testimony as to when it was received.

This post has been edited by peterguk: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 - 23:54


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The Rookie
post Wed, 5 Sep 2018 - 06:35
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Or possibly even a long term loaner from Bentley Motors Limited. That said I’m sure he could afford a cash purchase!

If he’s not the RK, convincing a court that a bulk handling office (lease or at BML) can state exactly when it was served (as opposed to opened) isn’t going to be easy, on the upside they would have nothing to gain so their evidence would carry more weight.


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Jlc
post Wed, 5 Sep 2018 - 07:43
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Tue, 4 Sep 2018 - 22:04) *
I would have thought the Bentley would be leased - so the first NIP in the chain would have gone to a finance or management company, not DB. Which would involve someone from the finance co. giving testimony as to when it was received.

If DB received it on day 15 following an initial NIP to a lease firm then it's going to be an expensive 'mistake'. I can't believe this has been overlooked if so?


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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DancingDad
post Wed, 5 Sep 2018 - 08:39
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Considering the potential fine will be based on income and that we have seen more then one footballer hammered on that, latest IIRC was 96K for speeding offences for a Southampton player, he may have been better taking the points and FPN.
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Jlc
post Wed, 5 Sep 2018 - 08:44
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I hope he checked his DOCREF date on the v5... laugh.gif


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Redivi
post Wed, 5 Sep 2018 - 13:38
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 5 Sep 2018 - 09:39) *
Considering the potential fine will be based on income and that we have seen more then one footballer hammered on that, latest IIRC was 96K for speeding offences for a Southampton player, he may have been better taking the points and FPN.

Is this just a game that footballers and celebrities play because accepting a fine and points is for ordinary people ?

"Late NIP" used to be a favourite Freeman tactic

Have always puzzled how he knows because he's previously boasted that he doesn't ask for information because he could be compromised if his statements to the court are less than accurate

Perhaps hoping that the magistrates won't know that only the original NIP has to be served in 14 days

Find it difficult to believe that Mr Beckham would ever be be named on the NIP

If the car isn't leased, wouldn't it be registered to Footwork Productions Limited (previous name David Beckham Ltd)
The cynic in me can entirely believe that not all post is stamped the day it arrives

This post has been edited by Redivi: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 - 13:39
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peterguk
post Wed, 5 Sep 2018 - 13:45
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Wed, 5 Sep 2018 - 14:38) *
Perhaps hoping that the magistrates won't know that only the original NIP has to be served in 14 days

I'd imagine the prosecutor will know...


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samthecat
post Wed, 5 Sep 2018 - 16:33
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 5 Sep 2018 - 09:39) *
Considering the potential fine will be based on income and that we have seen more then one footballer hammered on that, latest IIRC was 96K for speeding offences for a Southampton player, he may have been better taking the points and FPN.


I thought the max fine was £1000 for speeding?


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BertB
post Wed, 5 Sep 2018 - 16:43
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 5 Sep 2018 - 08:43) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Tue, 4 Sep 2018 - 22:04) *
I would have thought the Bentley would be leased - so the first NIP in the chain would have gone to a finance or management company, not DB. Which would involve someone from the finance co. giving testimony as to when it was received.

If DB received it on day 15 following an initial NIP to a lease firm then it's going to be an expensive 'mistake'. I can't believe this has been overlooked if so?


I believe the claim is the NIP was posted on the 2nd but not received until the 7th. It was stamped with that date, but as pointed out the stamp indicates the date of being stamped, not necessarily the receipt. I would also assume that a date stamp that can be manually changed on a whim, and can be subject to a fat fingered date change too far, might be looked upon with a raised brow or two if that is the only evidence he has.
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Fredd
post Wed, 5 Sep 2018 - 22:31
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QUOTE (samthecat @ Wed, 5 Sep 2018 - 17:33) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 5 Sep 2018 - 09:39) *
Considering the potential fine will be based on income and that we have seen more then one footballer hammered on that, latest IIRC was 96K for speeding offences for a Southampton player, he may have been better taking the points and FPN.


I thought the max fine was £1000 for speeding?

It is. Level 5 fines are unlimited, but simple speeding offences are either Level 3 (non-motorway - £1000 max) or Level 4 (motorway - £2500 max). Failure to provide is also Level 3.


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The Rookie
post Thu, 6 Sep 2018 - 06:25
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Exactly the fine is trivial, as are the costs, for a very rich person, so you may as well have a go, points are the only really punishment and will be 6 regardless.


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BertB
post Thu, 6 Sep 2018 - 11:04
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IIRC, the Southampton player was in court to answer three separate counts of FTF where he claimed it was either his brother or cousin driving.
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DancingDad
post Thu, 6 Sep 2018 - 12:16
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QUOTE (BertB @ Thu, 6 Sep 2018 - 12:04) *
IIRC, the Southampton player was in court to answer three separate counts of FTF where he claimed it was either his brother or cousin driving.


He was.
IIRC in court he admitted he was driving, avoided the FTF but still copped points leading to a ban plus as a repeat offender, magistrates imposed the up to three times weekly wage fines.
He can now employ a chauffer and still not notice it rolleyes.gif
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cabbyman
post Thu, 6 Sep 2018 - 17:37
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Wed, 5 Sep 2018 - 14:38) *
The cynic in me can entirely believe that not all post is stamped the day it arrives


The cynic in me says that post can be stamped with the date set on the stamp....not necessarily the date on which it is stamped! rolleyes.gif tongue.gif


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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 6 Sep 2018 - 18:37
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Rubbish.

You are either accusing David Beckham of stamping a false date on a letter to avoid a speeding fine.

Or you are saying he convinced a member of staff to. With said member of staff having an extremely valuable story to "anonymously" sell at a later date.

We are forever saying that to convince a court a NIP has been delivered late you need to chase them down the street and have tipped them enough at Christmas to give you a statement. Are we seriously saying now that if you employ someone to stamp your post when it comes in, be it a person or a company, that the court should assume the stamp is wrong unless you can prove otherwise?

It goes back to my point a while back that if you have law designed to protect the motorist where the bar is so high to defend that a defence is practically impossible, then you might as well not have the law at all. Why would Parliament provide protections if they intended for no-one to take advantage of them?
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cabbyman
post Thu, 6 Sep 2018 - 18:48
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huh.gif


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DastardlyDick
post Fri, 7 Sep 2018 - 10:33
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I suspect that Beckham will be used as an "example" of how the Law applies equally regardless of your celebrity status, and you can only "get away with it" by paying expensive Solicitors like Mr Freeman who's services us lesser mortals cannot afford. The fact that it's a DJ presiding rather than the usual magistrate is not, IMO, a coincidence either.

I think even Mr Freeman is going to struggle with this one - I would guess that the car is loaned/leased to Beckham's company and that (as a security measure) correspondence goes to a PO Box to be collected by an Employee who then opens it. If the NiP arrived after the collection, then it will be deemed served in time. Relying on an Employee's evidence could be fraught with risk regarding this date stamping stuff - no pressure there is there? Tell them you date stamped it on this date, or loose your job?

Anyway, we'll all have to wait until the 27th for further developments.





This post has been edited by DastardlyDick: Fri, 7 Sep 2018 - 10:58
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henrik777
post Fri, 7 Sep 2018 - 10:37
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QUOTE (DastardlyDick @ Fri, 7 Sep 2018 - 11:33) *
I suspect that Beckham will be used as an "example" of how the Law applies equally regardless of your celebrity status, and you can only "get away" with it by paying expensive Solicitors like Mr Freeman who's services us lesser mortals cannot afford.
The fact that it's a DJ presiding, is not, IMO, a coincidence.



Case law is pretty much settled on matters such as these. It comes down to the evidence of the facts. Prove it wasn't served in time or you lose. Matters little who you are or who you can afford.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 7 Sep 2018 - 11:52
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QUOTE (DastardlyDick @ Fri, 7 Sep 2018 - 11:33) *
I would guess that the (1) car is loaned/leased to Beckham's company and that (2) (as a security measure) correspondence goes to a PO Box to be collected by an (3) Employee who then opens it.

That's 3 rather big assumptions!


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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