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Bus lane offence, ever so slightly drove in a bus lane to merge into lane
zt96
post Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 13:44
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Hi everyone, new face here!! smile.gif

Today (Monday 29th June 2020) I received a PCN from Camden council in London, alleging that my motorbike breached a bus lane order by, "Being in a bus lane - camera enforcement".

The alleged contravention took place on Wednesday 22nd May at 18:07 on Southampton Row in London, and the PCN is dated 29th May. The bus lane operates from 16:00 - 19:00.

I only received this letter through the post on Saturday 27th June, 29 days after the PCN was dated.

It has 4 images on the PCN which are small and not particularly easy to see.

The place where the alleged contravention took place is close to the end of the bus lane, where there is a merge left arrow for the inner lane, I would estimate it's about a few metres away.

I feel this is quite a harsh fine (doesn't everyone I suppose!) and want to appeal but would like the collective advice of this forum as to whether you all think it is worth it, and if so, how I should word the appeal.




I've attached screengrabs of the start of the bus lane at the north of Southampton Row, the sign, the streetview roughly at the point of alleged contravention and images of the PCN (with personal information redacted).

Any help and advice would be very much appreciated.

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post Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 13:44
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stamfordman
post Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 14:12
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This is a common lane for bikers to be caught in and very sneaky by Camden - we've probably had five others here.

If you PM me the reg and PCN number I'll post the video, which is the key.

There isn't a 28 day limit on sending London bus lane PCNs (I think).

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 14:14
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zt96
post Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 14:30
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 15:12) *
This is a common lane for bikers to be caught in and very sneaky by Camden - we've probably had five others here.

If you PM me the reg and PCN number I'll post the video, which is the key.

There isn't a 28 day limit on sending London bus lane PCNs (I think).



Hey Stamfordman,

I sent you over a message.
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stamfordman
post Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 14:39
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Well I think this is trivial - I would certain make reps on this and it would stand a good chance at the tribunal. Let's see what others say. It also looks like you were trying not to run into the back of the truck.



This post has been edited by stamfordman: Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 14:47
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 18:41
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That is no better than a 50/50 at tribunal, It would all depend an what the adjudicator had for breakfast


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stamfordman
post Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 21:31
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 19:41) *
That is no better than a 50/50 at tribunal,

It would all depend an what the adjudicator had for breakfast


Can he phone a friend? I'd give it better than 50:50.

Yes, if the adjudicator had two shredded wheats there could be trouble.
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Incandescent
post Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 23:00
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 22:31) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 29 Jun 2020 - 19:41) *
That is no better than a 50/50 at tribunal,

It would all depend an what the adjudicator had for breakfast


Can he phone a friend? I'd give it better than 50:50.

Yes, if the adjudicator had two shredded wheats there could be trouble.

Unfortunately some adjudicators seem to breakfast on lemons.

For me the video shows a very trivial contravention, a classic de minimis . There is surely no traffic management benefit in the PCN, indeed none at all in most PCNs issued for bus lane contraventions !
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cp8759
post Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 11:30
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I agree this is as close to a coin toss as we're likely to see, could go either way.


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stamfordman
post Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 13:45
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Well first the OP should make assertive reps on de minimis to Camden.

This lane doesn't have an end of bus lane sign and didn't have before the works we can see in the video. Guidance says:

The end of a with‐flow bus lane will usually be obvious through the termination of the diagram 1049A marking. If considered necessary due to observed driver behaviour, an upright sign to diagram 964 (S9‐4‐11, see Figure 9‐5) may be sited as shown in Figure 9‐1.

964 being the end of bus lane sign and observed driver behaviour being the many PCNs dished out here.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 13:45
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 14:00
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 30 Jun 2020 - 14:45) *
Well first the OP should make assertive reps on de minimis to Camden.

This lane doesn't have an end of bus lane sign and didn't have before the works we can see in the video. Guidance says:

The end of a with‐flow bus lane will usually be obvious through the termination of the diagram 1049A marking. If considered necessary due to observed driver behaviour, an upright sign to diagram 964 (S9‐4‐11, see Figure 9‐5) may be sited as shown in Figure 9‐1.

964 being the end of bus lane sign and observed driver behaviour being the many PCNs dished out here.


One of the adjudications that was lost considered this end of bus lane sign and rightly found it was not needed as the bus lane continues after the lights. Others have found it is needed to avoid confusion so its still take your pick


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