86mph in 60mph no police visible Options

[Chrishill19]

Hi,

I was driving down the M40 the other evening, and the M40 changes to the A40 and the speed limit drops from 70 to 60 and then further down goes to 50 and has average speed cameras.

I was pulled over at the round about further down from where the 60mph signs are displayed and the policeman explained he pulled me over for speeding. He said that he saw me coming from the other side of the road.

He showed me his laser 4 gun, which showed 88mph. He said that i would be given a £100 fine along with 3 points... I have been looking online and i have seen calculators etc saying im going to be fined as per my income and probably 4-6 points with a possible 7-31 days ban??? he never said this to me.

This police car was not visible to me and i have no idea where he was? Don't they have to be visible to drivers if they are pointing speed gun at people?

I have been sent a charge sheet, a statement of means (incoming and outgoings), a witness statement and a single justice procedure notice.
There is no mention of any points or my charge given.

The charge sheet is RR84214, excess 60mph, manned equipment.

His statement says he was travelling eastbound, same as me when he saw my car travelling east also... (no video evidence of this)

He then states that my vehicle was travelling AWAY from him and he estimated is was doing in excess of 60mph. Surely that doesn't make sense? Either he was travelling eastbound with me or he was travelling on the opposite side of the road and if he was how did he manage to stop on same side as me and then point his laser at me?

He then says that he ''sighted this vehicle in the head up display by aiming the laser at the vehicle and i activated the device. It displayed a reading of 88mph for this vehicle when the vehicle was 141.3 (whatever 141.3 means?)

I am extremely worried now as i don't see any points or fine on these letters and looking at the calculators, i'm going to have to pay something like £790 which i simply cannot afford to pay on a single wage, with 2 kids, renting an expensive flat and tons of outgoings.

I looked up that the charge sheet code - RR84214 Excess speed 60mph is a £100 fine, 3 points and a course available but this could be old?

Please can i have some sort of info as to what sort of fine and points i am expecting and regarding my plea and him stating he was travelling away from me and out of sight etc.

[Advertisement]

[BaggieBoy]

There appears to be some missing information, that excess speed would normally get a fixed penalty (3 points and £100) but you say you have a SJPN. Were you offered a fixed penalty?

A detailed timeline might help.

[Chrishill19]

There appears to be some missing information, that excess speed would normally get a fixed penalty (3 points and £100) but you say you have a SJPN. Were you offered a fixed penalty?

A detailed timeline might help.

The officer said to me when he pulled me over that the penalty would be £100 and 3 points. He said it could take up to 5-6 weeks for me to receive the letter. That was all that was said.

I received the letter yesterday and have been sent the following papers..

1. Your Plea, guilty with no court, guilty with court or not guilty with send me date of trial options. The Offence charged is RR84214, Exceeded 60MPH limit. This is to be sent back to a court in London.
2. Certificate of service - Criminal procedure rules
3. Charge sheet - RR84214 is my charge with details of where the incident took place
4. Single Justice Procedure Notice - charges (1) Excess speed - info on pleading guilty etc via online or post
5. Witness statement - Explains in the officers words what happened
6. Statement of Means - My income and outgoings to be filled in

[BaggieBoy]

My error, I thought it was a 70 MPH limit, 86 in a 60 is too high for fixed penalty, officer should have know that. it was inevitable it was going to court from the outset.

So the first question is, is the speed likely to be accurate?

You either plead guilty and get a discount on the fine and reduced costs or you plead not guilty and make them prove their case.

[NewJudge]

The guideline sentence is a fine of a week's net income (reduced by a third if you plead guilty) and either 4-6 points or a ban of between 7 and 28 days. The most likely outcome is six points, though you may get away with five. You will also pay a surcharge of 10% of the fine (with a minimum of £30) and £85 costs. If you plead not guilty but are found guilty at trial you will lose the one third discount on the fine and the costs will be anything from £300 to £620 (depending how much work is needed to prepare the case for trial).

Is there any reason to doubt the speed alleged?

[Chrishill19]

My error, I thought it was a 70 MPH limit, 86 in a 60 is too high for fixed penalty, officer should have know that. it was inevitable it was going to court from the outset.

So the first question is, is the speed likely to be accurate?

You either plead guilty and get a discount on the fine and reduced costs or you plead not guilty and make them prove their case.

Probably yes.

Do they have to be visible when they activate the laser because they were no where to be seen. Where the sign posts are located for the speed limit to be reduced, i believe there is a little layby just before them (i would need to check)... If they were sitting before the sign posts then how can they do me before i pass the signs... I might need to return to the road and check.

My real question is i want to know is where they were sitting when they clocked me because i have no idea.

What does this mean - It displayed a speed reading of 88mph for this vehicle when the vehicle was 141.3??

Obviously me going to court to get them to prove their case will cost me money if i lost right?

I guess i am looking at one of the hefty fines the calculators online produce...

What about a ban? Am i likely to get one?

The guideline sentence is a fine of a week's net income (reduced by a third if you plead guilty) and either 4-6 points or a ban of between 7 and 28 days. The most likely outcome is six points, though you may get away with five. You will also pay a surcharge of 10% of the fine (with a minimum of £30) and £85 costs. If you plead not guilty but are found guilty at trial you will lose the one third discount on the fine and the costs will be anything from £300 to £620 (depending how much work is needed to prepare the case for trial).

Is there any reason to doubt the speed alleged?

Not really to be honest...

Im going to go back to the road and try and see where they were sitting because they were certainly not in view... Will this matter at all or not?

[BaggieBoy]

They don't have to be visible. The chances they were visible but you failed to spot them. The 141.3 will be the distance you were from them in metres when you were pinged.

[NewJudge]

Im going to go back to the road and try and see where they were sitting because they were certainly not in view... Will this matter at all or not?

No.

The "141.3" is probably the motorway marker post (the little striped posts you see adjacent to the hard shoulder). It identifies where you were when the offence is alleged to have occurred.

If you are thinking of contesting this on what amounts to a technicality you need to be sure of your ground. The police will argue that you were detected by an approved device operated in the correct manner. The court is entitled to rely on those two things unless you can cast doubt on one or the other. Since you suggest that the speed alleged is probably correct you might struggle to do so.

[morrisman]

The "141.3" is probably the motorway marker post (the little striped posts you see adjacent to the hard shoulder).

Probably not as it was on the A40 not the M40

[NewJudge]

Probably not as it was on the A40 not the M40

Yes I think BB's explanation is more plausible.

[LaughingLeaf]

The question isn't "Were the police visible" but "Were the spped limit signs visible."

[peterguk]

The question isn't "Were the police visible" but "Were the spped limit signs visible."

I was pulled over at the round about further down from where the 60mph signs are displayed

[Chrishill19]

The question isn't "Were the police visible" but "Were the spped limit signs visible."

I was pulled over at the round about further down from where the 60mph signs are displayed

I was pulled over on the 4th of August and i received the letter on the 15th of September. The officer did say to me when that it would take 5-6 weeks to receive the letter.

[666]

The question isn't "Were the police visible" but "Were the spped limit signs visible."

I was pulled over at the round about further down from where the 60mph signs are displayed

I was pulled over on the 4th of August and i received the letter on the 15th of September. The officer did say to me when that it would take 5-6 weeks to receive the letter.

The only applicable time limit is six months to start court proceedings, and that has been met.