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Yellow Box Junction - Highway Code vs TSRGD 2016
MrChips
post Fri, 16 Aug 2019 - 19:26
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Hello. I'm involved in a protracted debate with a relatively ill informed individual on another forum. I've explained that it is only a contravention to stop in a yellow box junction if this is due to stationary vehicles. He says that any stop (other than where the right turn exemption applies) is a contravention.

I've pointed him to the TSRGD 2016, but he just keeps repeating back that according to the Highway Code you MUST NOT enter until the exit is clear. And that the highway code says that anything that says "must not" is a legal requirement.

Why is it that there is a divergence between what the Highway Code says you can/cannot do in a box junction and what the law actually requires??
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post Fri, 16 Aug 2019 - 19:26
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 16 Aug 2019 - 19:47
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TSRGD take precedent send him a copy of this case


ETA Register of Appeals


Register Kept Under Regulation 20 of the Road Traffic (Parking Adjudicators)(London) Regulations 1993, as amended or Paragraph 21 of the Schedule to the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) Representations and Appeals Regulations 2007, as applicable
Case Details
Case reference
2160252038
Appellant
alan branch
Authority
London Borough of Waltham Forest
VRM
V361GOO

PCN Details
PCN
FR24355799
Contravention date
24 Apr 2016
Contravention time
16:44:00
Contravention location
Hall Lane/Albert Crescent
Penalty amount
GBP 130.00
Contravention
Entering and stopping in a box junction

Referral date


Decision Date
11 Jul 2016
Adjudicator
Gerald Styles
Appeal decision
Appeal allowed
Direction
cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.
Reasons
The appellant attended the hearing arranged for 11 July.
The Council did not send a representative.
The appellant brought with him a freehand sketch in plan to explain and support his argument that the driver could have cleared the box without stopping for the 12 or so seconds recorded. I have retained this and accepted the measurements as shown.
The appellant's daughter Rebecca is shown driving on the clip. I understood she had passed her test two years ago. I have accepted that she could have cleared the box without stopping within it. In the event the rear wheels straddled the far perimeter.
She may through inexperience have misjudged the length of her father's car but I do not incline to allow an appeal of this type on that account. An obvious feature of the evidence was that when she stopped, that she did so for the purpose of adjusting controls on her music. I was inclined to be very critical of her taking her eyes off the road as she did and when she chose to do that. I did however conclude there was insufficient evidence to support this particular penalty charge as I could not attribute the reason for stopping as being essentially the presence of stationary vehicles, as opposed to preoccupation with what was playing music. I have recorded the appeal as allowed.


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MrChips
post Fri, 16 Aug 2019 - 20:35
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Thanks PMB. I was aware of the case, and have cut and pasted it into the thread.

But do you (or anyone else) know why the Highway Code is plain wrong on what you MUST NOT do in a yellow box junction? There is no requirement to wait until the exit is clear before entering - although it is generally good advice.
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southpaw82
post Fri, 16 Aug 2019 - 20:39
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Ask the Department for Transport. Stop arguing with idiots on the internet.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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DancingDad
post Fri, 16 Aug 2019 - 20:51
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 16 Aug 2019 - 21:39) *
Ask the Department for Transport. Stop arguing with idiots on the internet.

Include us in the latter biggrin.gif


The Highway code gives the general basic, just not the full story.
It should link to the legislation (I haven't checked) to qualify the MUST NOT.

Your antagonist probably works for a London Council, they seem to believe the same, that Highway Code trumps legislation.
Anyone who cites HC as the legal rulebook without checking the actual legislation is an idiot BTW.
But if they follow the dictates, will usually be on the right side of the law.
I do say usually as I seem to remember a Bus Lane issue where HC inferred use which would have breached legislation and potentially copped a PCN.
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cp8759
post Fri, 16 Aug 2019 - 22:16
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 16 Aug 2019 - 21:39) *
Ask the Department for Transport. Stop arguing with idiots on the internet.

+ 1 million. There's people out there who things Act of Parliament are not laws, the police can't arrest you without your consent, and the Earth is flat. Seriously, I'm sure you have better things to do with your time.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Guest_Charlie1010_*
post Sat, 17 Aug 2019 - 06:05
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