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MS90, 6 points and license revoked (new driver), Stat Dec soon. Help please., Threads merged x3
Stripes
post Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 16:19
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Hi thanks for reading and please advise me if you could.
In June 2018, I was on a trip in Wales and was, unbeknownst to me, caught doing 40mph on a 30mph road. I live in a flat above a closed down office and received no letters at all. In December (now), I was in the process of moving to a new house so decided to update my driving license address. It would come up with an error repeatedly which was weird. I tried over a couple of days. So one day I decided to ask the DVLA why it won't let me change my address. Before ringing them I quickly checked my license details online using their website and saw that I have 6 points under MS90 and my license has been revoked in November under the New Drivers Act (I passed in May 2017). This of course shocked me so I rang everyone possible, and here are the responses I got. The DVLA said to ring my local magistrate and do a Stat Dec which is booked on the Friday 11th of Jan 2019. I got access to the closed offices beneath my flat and found a whole heap of letters including the NIP and letters from the DVLA. Now, here's the weird bit. My flats address is (not mentioned the real number so will use 123) 123A Something Road. Now half of the letters were addressed to 123 Something Road and some to my flat 123A. I rang the Welsh police force who issued the NIP and they said my address on log book and insurance was down as 123 Something Road, which I hadn't realised at all. However, my license address with the DVLA is 123A. I was completely unaware and thought there must be a problem. I had previously not received council tax letters to my flat either. Every letter, regardless of whether it's being addressed to 123 or 123A ends up in the closed down office. It was impossible for me to receive any letters as the post service has the top flat and bottom office down as 123 Something Road and they're giving me written confirmation of this soon. This may be why my insurance and log book has the wrong address. Anyway, I have to do a Stat Dec on the 11th and have read topics on here but I'm really unsure about the process and whether I'll be allowed to drive my car soon after it as I need it to travel to university. If you could answer the following questions it'll be really helpful.
1. What should I plead in regards to speeding and the failure to provide information.
2. How long after I submit the Stat Dec does the endorsement get removed and I can start driving?
3. What's the likelihood they'll drop the MS90 on the day if I do a plea bargain, and also how likely is it that I'll be allowed to bargain. Or who do I bargain with?
4. Do I need to take evidence with me to the magistrates for my Stat Dec?
5. If they set a new court date in Wales, will I need a solicitor to go with me or is it possible to fight this on my own? Would the letter from Royal Mail admitting no letters were being sent to my actual flat be enough to squash the MS90?
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post Mon, 7 Jan 2019 - 16:19
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Slapdash
post Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 09:57
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On the insurance proposal form for the company in question and within the policy what exactly is:-

- the question asked related to convictions

- the description related to notification of convictions in the policy

If you were with my insurer (and yours is likely to be similar) then mine says under notify immediately:-

"Motoring convictions (driving licence endorsements, fixed penalties or pending prosecutions for any motoring offences) for any of the people insured, or to be insured."

It also says:-

"When you inform us of a change, we will tell you if this affects your policy, for example whether we are able to accept the change and if so, whether the change will result in revised terms and/or premium being applied to your policy."

This would, in my view, give them the right to demand to know when it happened and adjust the premiums in any way they saw fit.

This is the position you find your self in. The inherent problem is that this gives them carte blanche to do whatever they want and may fall foul of unfair contract terms legislation if the policyholder were forced to accept it.

However my insurer would not force acceptance. I would be under the normal cancellation rights:-


"Or, if you wish to cancel and the insurance cover has already started, you will be entitled to a refund of the premium paid, less a proportionate deduction for the time for which you have been covered. There will also be an additional charge as shown in your schedule of £25.00 if you cancel within the first 14 days (plus Insurance Premium Tax, where applicable) to cover the administrative cost of providing the policy."

Your only option may be to cancel and insure elsewhere. You do not want them to cancel. That can have very unfriendly insurance consequences going fowards.

It is unfortunate in the extreme that the consequences of non delivery of mail are so harsh since you may well have been eligible for a course (generally has much less insurance impact).

It seems that you have not been disadvantaged by the undeclared (but unknown) temporary conviction. You do need to be sure that the revised premium is based solely upon 3pts and a single SP30 rather than any inclusion of the now defunct MS90.

A complaint about the level of premium is unlikely to be fruitful. Ultimately the insurer can asess risk however they want.

They do, however, have a duty to treat fairly. Thus your premium ought to be reasonably similar for a similar new business case. This is obviously difficult to ascertain but a dummy quote with same vehicle and conviction date for a policy starting shortly may yield a reasonable indication.

This post has been edited by Slapdash: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 11:21
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Churchmouse
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 17:52
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QUOTE (Slapdash @ Mon, 14 Jan 2019 - 09:57) *
A complaint about the level of premium is unlikely to be fruitful. Ultimately the insurer can asess risk however they want.

They do, however, have a duty to treat fairly. Thus your premium ought to be reasonably similar for a similar new business case. This is obviously difficult to ascertain but a dummy quote with same vehicle and conviction date for a policy starting shortly may yield a reasonable indication.

I'm not sure this would be a complaint just about the level of premium, because if the OP refuses to pay the extra premium, the insurer may then cancel the policy for non-payment of premium. That's why I suggest the OP file the complaint NOW, rather than after cancellation occurs.

I haven't actually checked my policies recently, but I had thought it was more common for convictions to be reportable at renewal, rather than immediately?

--Churchmouse
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Stripes
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 18:13
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The MS90 has been removed and the MS30 with a 40 pound fine is all that's left on my license. The DVLA say the date of offence is June so my insurer will want the increased premium. When I rang them I said I'm not even sure if what the conviction code (SP30) is or what the court regard the date of offence is so got them to recalculate based on a presumed SP30 dated June which I now know is the case. As they've said they noted I called to update them about the conviction and will wait until I receive all the paperwork from the courts, would it be best to just ring and cancel my policy before they demand the money. Or when telling them yes it is dated June and when they recalculate premiums can I just say I'd rather not and cancel that way? The insurer is Admiral by the way.
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Slapdash
post Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 19:01
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I think you need to escalate.

Admirals policy wordings are available on their website.

They require to be notified of revocation or disqualification immediately.

They require to be notified of convictions at renewal.

Of course your policy may have other requirements.

See page 6.

https://www.admiral.com/existing-customers/...y-documents.php

It seems to me that you have fulfilled this requirement. There doesn't appear to be any mention of them giving themselves the right to recalculate mid year, but I have not read it all nor seen your documentation.

As churchmouse said start the process of complaint now. Getting a policy cancelled on you by an insurer is a problem. It seems to me that their attempt to backdate is probably wrong. You appear to have declared accurately at the required time.

Even in September at inception there was no conviction to declare, the one in your absence had not happened. (Their point may be that had the documents relating to that not gone astray the conviction might have happened prior to September but the courts have accepted your statutory declaration and expunged that).

This post has been edited by Slapdash: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 - 19:39
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Churchmouse
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 00:03
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I agree with Slapdash on the above.

Please also note that a voluntary cancellation will probably cost you a lot more than you think. I recently went through an insurance policy cancellation within the 14-day cooling off period, which should have been limited to a pro-rata payment and a small change fee only, but the insurance broker had simply asked the insurer for the refund figure and quoted it to me--despite the insurer having used the (out of 14-day cooling off period) normal mid-term cancellation schedule, rather than the correct one. It took several emails and phone calls, and ultimately I had to follow the broker's "formal complaint procedure" before someone properly reviewed the case and issued the correct refund amount. There was a big difference at stake, so just be aware that your refund will not simply be a pro-rata refund--you will pay through the nose for any mid-term cancellation.

--Churchmouse
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Slapdash
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 00:57
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You discovered in December (when ?) the revocation. Did you notify them at that time or did you wait until after the SD on 11/1. ?

I am just trying to think whether that delay might be considered relevant (I don't really think it should be. Trying to sort the mess so you knew what to report.

Also what was the date of the MS90 conviction you did not know about ? Was it before or after the policy inception. This conviction date should be visible from your driving record before it is updated and was presumably referenced in the SD.

Considering those questions in line with the disclosure requirements and the fact that the FCA basically state "you cannot disclose what you do not know" may help you formulate how you present your complaint.

Resolving it to no increase in premium would be the desired (and in my view correct) outcome.

If you cancel you are stuffed with any replacement cover since it will be loaded due to the SP30. Staying with Admiral at least means you are not stuffed till next year.



This post has been edited by Slapdash: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 01:01
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Stripes
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 09:25
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On my driving record the MS90's 'offence date' is 30 July. The speeding was in June. Because as soon as you don't reply for a month, you've committed the offence. However, the formal proceedings to endorse my license with MS90 started on November 15th in my absence and the 6 points were given on that day. Which is why I told my insurer at the time I took out the policy, I had 0 points and no endorsements so you have no right to recalculate based on something that happened after the policy started. The drones on the phone just said I'm not sure what you want me to do it's asking for offence date. If I was to lodge a complaint, would it be with the FCA? My worry is these processes can take weeks and am I insured in the meantime as they've asked for £1300 more and if I haven't given it then maybe I'm not covered? If the complaint process works efficiently I can ring whoever I need to complain to today. Also in reply to Slapdash I discovered the MS90/everything on December 28. I didn't tell my insurance because it was the first I was hearing of it and was worried they'd cancel my insurance before even hearing the courts verdict. Once I did the stat dec I informed them straight away. And I only informed the insurance because when I asked the legal advisor in the magistrates when I'd be able to drive he said tell your insurance if you don't you'll be at risk of driving without insurance. I wasn't aware that I could wait until the end of the year. I guess I'm glad it's being brought to the surface now. If I had caused an accident and they would've used this to get out of paying out which would hurt a lot more.
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Churchmouse
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 11:00
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Your policy is with Admiral?

1. Go here: https://www.admiral.com/contact-us-help/com...information.php

2. Lodge a formal complaint.

3. After they investigate and if they refuse to back down, escalate your complaint to the FOS.

If you launch a complaint the insurer should put any premium increase and cancellation on hold, but if they do cancel, you should at least be notified so that you do not inadvertently drive without insurance.

You can also pay the premium increase and at the same time lodge a complaint. That would be the safest course, but an expensive one.

--Churchmouse
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Slapdash
post Wed, 16 Jan 2019 - 11:38
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If they do cancel I think that is another strand to the complaint. Additional premium paid to a different insurer should be part of the overall redress is the complaint is upheld (to ensure you are in the same position as you would otherwise has been).

Unfortunately the requirements around insurer cancellation notification are generally set by whatever is in the policy.

The ombudsman guides a minimum 7 days written notice.

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publ...se-studies.html

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