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UKPC - Can I appeal? What should I do?, Threads merged
liquidcool
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 10:17
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Hi,

This weekend the driver of a vehicle (SIC) got one of these "parking tickets" from UKPC. They parked on an industrial estate where Harrowall Climbing center is located in Harrow, London. They parked their car up along the wall outside the center where other cars have parked, and where they have parked many times before. They came out a few hours later to see some guy getting ready to put a ticket on the car.

Apparently the driver could only park within marked bays. There was no visible sign where they parked mentioning this. The driver was a little in shock and did not want to get into an argument as they had their young daughter with them.

Couple of things I picked up on after researching about these vultures:
1. I have checked online and the images they have as evidence and they do not show properly if the driver of the car was within a marked bay or not.
2. None of the images show a notice sign with reference to the car (Which could look like the picture of the car was taken anywhere)
3. Two of the images do not show the ticket on the windscreen. One of them looks like it was taken as the driver was driving away.
4. On the ticket it has the colour of the car incorrect. Car is registered with the DVLA as GREY not BLACK (which is what they put on the ticket)
5. Wording on the ticket states - "Not parked correctly within the markings of the bay or SPACE". reference back to point 1.
6. The car was not obstructing any traffic. A lorry could pass between the car and others parked. So no loss or damages would have been incurred by any estate residents.
7. There is a picture on evidence for the sign, but it does not mention anything about parking within marked bays.

Where does one stand with this ?

Should they appeal online? should they wait past the 14 days and then appeal ?

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

This post has been edited by liquidcool: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 12:45
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post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 10:17
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HotWater
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 23:09
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Definitely don't name the driver. As you have likely guessed, this is just a ploy.

Post up any paperwork, and emails you have, using the guidance here - http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36858

Make sure that any identifiable info is redacted first, and make sure any posts you make here do not inadvertently reveal the identity of the driver.
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doreen4161
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 23:13
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No, you are under no obligation to reveal the driver.
You may of already done so, unless you referred to the keeper and the driver as separete in your appeal
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HotWater
post Mon, 11 Mar 2019 - 23:33
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Is this in relation to the PCN issued on Jan 19th?

If so, do you have reason to believe that the have/haven't accessed the DVLA yet?
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Ollyfrog
post Tue, 12 Mar 2019 - 02:23
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Hit report and ask for this to be merged with your original thread please.
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liquidcool
post Tue, 12 Mar 2019 - 08:02
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@HotWater - Yes this is. We don't think they have gone to the DVLA, because no letter was sent to the owners address.
@doreen4161 - Only reference to the owner was made in the appeal because those were the sections that had to be filled in online. Appeal stated that the sign was of a forbidding nature and quoted some case references, and as such requested for the charge to be cancelled.
@Ollyfrog - I have requested for the thread to be merged.

This post has been edited by liquidcool: Tue, 12 Mar 2019 - 08:04
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liquidcool
post Fri, 15 Mar 2019 - 09:15
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Sorry to bump this, but does anyone have any advice on what I should do?
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Glacier2
post Fri, 15 Mar 2019 - 12:03
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Do nothing for now. Sit on your hands. They will either send a POPLA code or a NTK which restarts the process from scratch.
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ostell
post Sat, 16 Mar 2019 - 09:42
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Has the registered keeper applied to the DVLA to find out who accessed their detail? Give dates of parking and today as the range. Send to SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gov.uk

It must be getting close or past the 56 days from the date of parking Has it?

So if it's past day 56 and no NTK then you could write and tell them to stop any furhter communication with you as they have has past the time to be able to hold you liable as the keeper. If they do manage to sneak in a NTK but haven't contacted the DVLA then there's another failure.
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liquidcool
post Sun, 17 Mar 2019 - 09:46
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@ostell

It was the 56th day yesterday from issue of ticket.

Would a NTK come by post ? or can it be sent by email also (as we have only received an email from them) ?

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ostell
post Sun, 17 Mar 2019 - 10:21
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POFA states that if it is not delivered by hand then it must be delivered by post. 9 (4) (b)

So what did they say in the email? Can you post it up suitably redacted. just to check.
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liquidcool
post Sun, 24 Mar 2019 - 23:42
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@ostell, please find attached the letter (which was a link to their site to download the PDF) that we received
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ostell
post Mon, 25 Mar 2019 - 08:00
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That would suggest that they realise that they are losing and as a last gap are asking for the drivers details.
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liquidcool
post Mon, 25 Mar 2019 - 14:26
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Thanks ostell.

We just got a response back from the DVLA and there have been no requests for information on the vehicle. And it is now way over the 56 days from the issue of the "ticket". Also we did not respond to this email they sent either. Just ignored it.
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ostell
post Mon, 25 Mar 2019 - 16:21
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So a letter to UKPC is now in order.

Sirs,

Ref PCN xxxxx dor vehicle VRM xxxxx

You have not sent a Notice to Keeper to me within the relevant period required by section 8 (4) (b) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, nor have you requested my details as keeper from the DVLA within the same relevant period as required by 11 (1) (b) of the same act. You cannot, therefore, by this failure transfer liability for matter from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc


First class post with free certificate of posting from any post offfice.

This post has been edited by ostell: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 - 16:23
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