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Notice of Intended Prosecution, But I wasn't speeding?
cruz
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 19:28
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Hello

I have today received a notice of intended prosecution from North Wales Police

All it say is my speed was 68mph at A483 Dual carriageway Junction 7 Rossett, Wrexham.

This is obviouslt a mobile camera as a fixed probably wouldn't flash under 70mph on a dual carriageway

I was driving my Renault Traffic van which I had fully converted to a campervan and sent the V5 document off to reclass it as a Motor Caravan. My V5 clearly states Motor Caravan on it.

As far as I am aware this reclassification now allows me to drive at 70mph on dual carriageways rather than the 60mph limit from when it was a commerical panel van.

Am I correct in my Motor Caravan assumption of 70mph? The V5 says Motor Caravan and N1

This link suggests I am https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

Thanks.

This post has been edited by cruz: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 19:43
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post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 19:28
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cruz
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 06:50
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As you can see in the attached image their is no arguement that "looks like" a Motor Caravan

Thanks All. I will inform as to the decision I get back from GoSafe and North Wales Police
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Logician
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 09:01
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I would send a picture showing it clearly to be a campervan and including the numberplate, as well as a copy of the V5C, just belt and braces.


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cruz
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 20:39
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Got a letter today confirming the fine has been cancelled. Many thanks.

It also proves N1 vehicle status has nothing to do with speeds limits. Registering a converted van as a motor caravan does
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Redivi
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 20:54
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Excellent
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The Rookie
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 21:24
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Nice one....


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Logician
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 21:43
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Good result


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cruz
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 22:25
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Why did they ask me to fill in the s172 if there was no offence?
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mdann52
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 23:09
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QUOTE (cruz @ Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 23:25) *
Why did they ask me to fill in the s172 if there was no offence?

Because failing to complete the s172 is a separate offence in itself.
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Jlc
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 05:51
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QUOTE (cruz @ Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 23:25) *
Why did they ask me to fill in the s172 if there was no offence?

There was an alleged offence which allows them to issue the s172. Whether an offence actually occurred or not doesn't matter.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 20:16
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It is actually unusual, normally the police say don't bother filling it out although, as others have said, technically it is still potentially an offence not to.

Whether they would ever actually prosecute when they made the initial mistake is anyone's guess. However, as there are a lot of people who simply love rules working in police civvie roles why take the risk for the price of a stamp.
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cruz
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 14:31
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After successfully getting a mobile camera speeding summons cancelled because my van is registered as a motor caravan here is some information via email from the Heavy Vehicle Technical Officer at the Vehicle standards agency to muddy the waters again. Though I am sure he is wrong about the police not recognising a motor caravan as an M category vehicle as I have just challenged a fine successfully, unless he is referring to a fine from an individual Police officer? As well know they never like to be proven wrong even when they are.

************

Good afternoon,

If the vehicle is a complete conversion as a motorhome with no load space the speed limits on gov.uk will apply dependant on the un-laden weight of the converted vehicle. The N status will remain as that is the approval the vehicle was built to but once converted to a complete motorhome it effectively becomes a passenger vehicle M category but that can’t be changed post registration. The Police don’t seem to understand the concept of change so it will take a brave person to take a speeding fine to court to get this confirmed once and for all.

I must stress though that the converted vehicle must not have any external locker or space that is used for the carriage of goods such as bikes, cars, horses or any other form of goods not required for living in that vehicle.

Regards
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southpaw82
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 14:47
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The classification is a red herring (in my view). What matters is what the vehicle is as a matter of fact, not what it is called.


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The Rookie
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 14:58
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I’m concerned by that last part, you add a bike rack and it turns back into a commercial vehicle?


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
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Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
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cruz
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 15:11
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He was referring to internal space......obviously
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KH_
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 15:46
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The last part mentions external locker or space for the carriage of goods, and adds not required for living in the vehicle.
An external water tank might not be necessary for living in the vehicle, but it might make living in it much more pleasant.
More so an external grey water tank.

I imagine your own bikes would not be classed as goods, although a persistent prosecutor might let you test that in a court.
The bikes wouldn't be required to live, but they may improve a vacation and so may become part of the 'required to live'

Personally, I just think the VSA guy is spouting drivel, unless its a 17 tonne truck and half of it is full of pallets going to Amazon... wink.gif
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localdriver
post Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 18:16
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I wonder if the 'technical officer' is confusing motor caravans with other heavier vehicles, such as horse boxes etc., although they partially have living accomodation, may be subject to the goods vehicle speed limits.

This post has been edited by localdriver: Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 18:18
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notmeatloaf
post Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 19:49
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The VSA response is pointless anyway, they have already admitted their own classification system doesn't, for some bizarre reason, allow you to reclassify a vehicle even though repurposing especially larger vehicles is relatively common.

As SP says bearing in mind the range is very broad, it is just a matter of fact whether it is a motorhome. Someone might just have a mattress in the back of a panel van which, although covering all the loading space, is unlikely to make it a motorhome. Conversely, I used to know a carpenter who had kitted out a panel van to an amazing standard, but with no windows, he just used to open the sliding door. That, to me, has been "repurposed", as in permanent modifications rather than just the chattels of a home in a van.

But, without a judge ruling on it, the safest way is to get it approved either via a professional installer or presenting it for inspection - that way the police seemingly roll over.
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cruz
post Sun, 29 Jul 2018 - 16:40
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The crunch is if it's fixed or not. A mistress can be removed and usee as a works van the next day whereas my campers interior is fixed and there no way on god's green earth anything heavy and shitty will be loaded in the back
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southpaw82
post Sun, 29 Jul 2018 - 17:06
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QUOTE (cruz @ Sun, 29 Jul 2018 - 17:40) *
A mistress can be removed

Particularly in the presence of a wife.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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The Rookie
post Sun, 29 Jul 2018 - 17:34
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Well unless you decide to stand for a presidency, then they seem to come out of the woodwork to reattach themselves to your wallet rather virulently it seems.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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