Notice of Intended Prosecution, But I wasn't speeding? |
Notice of Intended Prosecution, But I wasn't speeding? |
Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 19:28
Post
#1
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 1 Dec 2012 Member No.: 58,646 |
Hello
I have today received a notice of intended prosecution from North Wales Police All it say is my speed was 68mph at A483 Dual carriageway Junction 7 Rossett, Wrexham. This is obviouslt a mobile camera as a fixed probably wouldn't flash under 70mph on a dual carriageway I was driving my Renault Traffic van which I had fully converted to a campervan and sent the V5 document off to reclass it as a Motor Caravan. My V5 clearly states Motor Caravan on it. As far as I am aware this reclassification now allows me to drive at 70mph on dual carriageways rather than the 60mph limit from when it was a commerical panel van. Am I correct in my Motor Caravan assumption of 70mph? The V5 says Motor Caravan and N1 This link suggests I am https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits Thanks. This post has been edited by cruz: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 19:43 |
|
|
Advertisement |
Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 19:28
Post
#
|
Advertise here! |
|
|
|
Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 06:50
Post
#21
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 1 Dec 2012 Member No.: 58,646 |
|
|
|
Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 09:01
Post
#22
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
I would send a picture showing it clearly to be a campervan and including the numberplate, as well as a copy of the V5C, just belt and braces.
-------------------- |
|
|
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 20:39
Post
#23
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 1 Dec 2012 Member No.: 58,646 |
Got a letter today confirming the fine has been cancelled. Many thanks.
It also proves N1 vehicle status has nothing to do with speeds limits. Registering a converted van as a motor caravan does |
|
|
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 20:54
Post
#24
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
Excellent
|
|
|
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 21:24
Post
#25
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 56,200 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Nice one....
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
|
|
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 21:43
Post
#26
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
Good result
-------------------- |
|
|
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 22:25
Post
#27
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 1 Dec 2012 Member No.: 58,646 |
Why did they ask me to fill in the s172 if there was no offence?
|
|
|
Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 23:09
Post
#28
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 272 Joined: 19 Aug 2016 Member No.: 86,499 |
|
|
|
Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 05:51
Post
#29
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Why did they ask me to fill in the s172 if there was no offence? There was an alleged offence which allows them to issue the s172. Whether an offence actually occurred or not doesn't matter. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
|
|
Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 20:16
Post
#30
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
It is actually unusual, normally the police say don't bother filling it out although, as others have said, technically it is still potentially an offence not to.
Whether they would ever actually prosecute when they made the initial mistake is anyone's guess. However, as there are a lot of people who simply love rules working in police civvie roles why take the risk for the price of a stamp. |
|
|
Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 14:31
Post
#31
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 1 Dec 2012 Member No.: 58,646 |
After successfully getting a mobile camera speeding summons cancelled because my van is registered as a motor caravan here is some information via email from the Heavy Vehicle Technical Officer at the Vehicle standards agency to muddy the waters again. Though I am sure he is wrong about the police not recognising a motor caravan as an M category vehicle as I have just challenged a fine successfully, unless he is referring to a fine from an individual Police officer? As well know they never like to be proven wrong even when they are.
************ Good afternoon, If the vehicle is a complete conversion as a motorhome with no load space the speed limits on gov.uk will apply dependant on the un-laden weight of the converted vehicle. The N status will remain as that is the approval the vehicle was built to but once converted to a complete motorhome it effectively becomes a passenger vehicle M category but that can’t be changed post registration. The Police don’t seem to understand the concept of change so it will take a brave person to take a speeding fine to court to get this confirmed once and for all. I must stress though that the converted vehicle must not have any external locker or space that is used for the carriage of goods such as bikes, cars, horses or any other form of goods not required for living in that vehicle. Regards |
|
|
Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 14:47
Post
#32
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 33,611 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
The classification is a red herring (in my view). What matters is what the vehicle is as a matter of fact, not what it is called.
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
|
|
Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 14:58
Post
#33
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 56,200 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
I’m concerned by that last part, you add a bike rack and it turns back into a commercial vehicle?
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
|
|
Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 15:11
Post
#34
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 1 Dec 2012 Member No.: 58,646 |
He was referring to internal space......obviously
|
|
|
Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 15:46
Post
#35
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 477 Joined: 1 Nov 2013 From: NG1 Member No.: 66,409 |
The last part mentions external locker or space for the carriage of goods, and adds not required for living in the vehicle.
An external water tank might not be necessary for living in the vehicle, but it might make living in it much more pleasant. More so an external grey water tank. I imagine your own bikes would not be classed as goods, although a persistent prosecutor might let you test that in a court. The bikes wouldn't be required to live, but they may improve a vacation and so may become part of the 'required to live' Personally, I just think the VSA guy is spouting drivel, unless its a 17 tonne truck and half of it is full of pallets going to Amazon... |
|
|
Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 18:16
Post
#36
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 1,314 Joined: 3 Sep 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 22,300 |
I wonder if the 'technical officer' is confusing motor caravans with other heavier vehicles, such as horse boxes etc., although they partially have living accomodation, may be subject to the goods vehicle speed limits.
This post has been edited by localdriver: Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 18:18 |
|
|
Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 19:49
Post
#37
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
The VSA response is pointless anyway, they have already admitted their own classification system doesn't, for some bizarre reason, allow you to reclassify a vehicle even though repurposing especially larger vehicles is relatively common.
As SP says bearing in mind the range is very broad, it is just a matter of fact whether it is a motorhome. Someone might just have a mattress in the back of a panel van which, although covering all the loading space, is unlikely to make it a motorhome. Conversely, I used to know a carpenter who had kitted out a panel van to an amazing standard, but with no windows, he just used to open the sliding door. That, to me, has been "repurposed", as in permanent modifications rather than just the chattels of a home in a van. But, without a judge ruling on it, the safest way is to get it approved either via a professional installer or presenting it for inspection - that way the police seemingly roll over. |
|
|
Sun, 29 Jul 2018 - 16:40
Post
#38
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 1 Dec 2012 Member No.: 58,646 |
The crunch is if it's fixed or not. A mistress can be removed and usee as a works van the next day whereas my campers interior is fixed and there no way on god's green earth anything heavy and shitty will be loaded in the back
|
|
|
Sun, 29 Jul 2018 - 17:06
Post
#39
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 33,611 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
A mistress can be removed Particularly in the presence of a wife. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
|
|
Sun, 29 Jul 2018 - 17:34
Post
#40
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 56,200 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Well unless you decide to stand for a presidency, then they seem to come out of the woodwork to reattach themselves to your wallet rather virulently it seems.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: Saturday, 30th March 2024 - 03:55 |