PCN yellow box charge - Roadworks on this road, Threads merged |
PCN yellow box charge - Roadworks on this road, Threads merged |
Tue, 24 Apr 2018 - 17:23
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 24 Apr 2018 Member No.: 97,670 |
Pulled onto this road from a side road so saw that lights had changed and guy let me go - 2 high top vehicles in front of me so visability difficult and I couldnt see braking behaviour and then traffic stopped leaving me partly in the yellow box.
Due to the road works on the opposite traffic flow, a contra flow situation has merged the driving lines and point 12.3 of the Traffic Signs Manual issued by the Department of Transport states that yellow box markings should not be used, “where traffic streams merge, as it will not be clear which stream has precedence when a gap appears. This post has been edited by Essexbeemer: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 - 20:35 |
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Tue, 24 Apr 2018 - 17:23
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Advertise here! |
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Tue, 24 Apr 2018 - 17:26
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
Assuming you have received a PCN, press "report" and ask a mod to move your post to the correct forum.
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Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 06:42
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#3
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 24 Apr 2018 Member No.: 97,670 |
I got a yellow box PCN & feel it could be overturned due to the road works on the opposite traffic flow, a contra flow situation has merged the driving lines and point 12.3 of the Traffic Signs Manual issued by the Department of Transport states that yellow box markings should not be used, “where traffic streams merge, as it will not be clear which stream has precedence when a gap appears."
I also had two high roof top vehicles ahead of me impairing my visibility and ability to envisage the braking behaviour of the vehicles ahead. You can also see the road I pulled out of has roadworks on my drivers side so without pulling out more I couldn't see. |
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Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 08:12
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
We need to see all the PCN and the video.
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Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 15:22
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#5
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 24 Apr 2018 Member No.: 97,670 |
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Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 15:55
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
My PCn is playing up i cant enlarge, is that printer still misaligned?
Op please use an external sit such as flickr -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 16:03
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Post the PCN on a pic site such as Imgur or Flickr. Have you checked online to see what the council has.
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Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 17:14
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#8
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 24 Apr 2018 Member No.: 97,670 |
Ill add to Flikr later tonight or tomorrow
Thank you |
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Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 20:02
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 12 Joined: 1 Oct 2017 Member No.: 94,292 |
Ill add to Flikr later tonight or tomorrow Thank you Posted on behalf of 'Essexbeemer' , full size image of PCN can be seen here .... https://flic.kr/p/Jrp3Fs |
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Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 20:19
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
This is part of an appeal i wrote for another member. both the points apply to your PCN, but this is not in a form suitable for representations
I make this appeal by way of collateral challenge, under the statutory ground .”That the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case.” by reason of the PCN failing to meet statutory requirements. And that contrary to regulations the authority failed to consider my representations. 1:- The council fail at 4(8)(a)(ii) of the regulations this requires that the amount of the penalty charge which is payable must be stated. This is not done. For whatever reason the printer used is misaligned, as a result the full amount of the penalty is missing. The regulations state this is information which must be contained within the PCN. That the reduced amount is visible cannot compensate for this. The regulations, nor the ability to hold a driving license are dependent on a level of maths ability nor impose on the recipient of a PCN the need or ability to calculate what the penalty should be. 2:- The second limb of my representations and now being put forward in this appeal is that the authority misstate the time by which they may serve a charge certificate. The PCN states “ If the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge of £195 may be payable. We may then send you a charge certificate seeking payment of the increased amount” The 28 day period must by inference be 28 days beginning with date of notice. This being the only period given. Schedule 1(5)(2)(a) outlines the regulatory period for the issue of a charge certificate. It being “where no representations are made under paragraph 1 above, with the date on which the penalty charge notice is served;” Service of the PCN is taken to be two working days after date of posting, this needs be taken as the date of notice, unless it can be shown otherwise. The making of representations also has the same period of date of service (schedule 1(1)(3)) though once a charge certificate is served it proscribes the making of representations, further no legal remedy would exist to reset this by way of statutory declaration. Thus depriving a person of two days in which to make representations leaving them liable for the increased charge before the regulations allow, without any statutory protection Either of these matters alone or both together do in my submission render the PCN non compliant with the regulations and thus a nullity as regards the demand that a penalty is due. -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 21:04
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#11
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 24 Apr 2018 Member No.: 97,670 |
Thank you
Are they allowed to send me another with the penalty charge showing? |
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Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 22:06
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Thank you Are they allowed to send me another with the penalty charge showing? No they can not -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Fri, 27 Apr 2018 - 09:10
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
wait to get the views of others. This is so over the top for representations to the council, but it gets all the points across and leave plenty of scope for them to c**k up with their response.
Representations against PCN number xxxxxx Vehicle registration mark AA 22 BCD your name and address I make these representations under the statutory ground that there was no breach of a prescribed order. Or indication of a scheduled sign. The cited contravention requires that each of the two parts defined by regulations are made out. These being entering the box and stopping due to the presence of stationary vehicles. The still images provided do not show either when I entered the box, so traffic conditions cannot be examined at this time nor can the show that I actually stopped. My memory of this event is that traffic came to a sudden and unexpected stop that a reasonable motorist could not anticipate. Whilst I understand that the regulations do not require that video be provided, this as a contravention captured by video camera is the evidence that the authority would rely on. The equality of arms and right to adversarial proceedings incorporated into article 6(3) of ECHR and ruled on by the European courts (jaspers vs Belgium) that the prosecuting and/or investigating authority must make available any evidence that they would rely on, or any material they have or could reasonably obtain that could help prove innocence. In the case of a PCN the authority are investigator, prosecutor and at this first stage judge, as such they need be meticulous in fairness and performance of their duty In view of this I require that with any rejection of this representation a full copy of the video showing both entry into the box and length of any stop, this is require in order that I may form an opinion on a defence at adjudication or if I should make payment. Two further points arise with the compliance of the PCN with statutory requirements. As follows The PCN fails at 4(8)(a)(ii) of the regulations these requires that the amount of the penalty charge which is payable must be stated. This is not done. For whatever reason the printer used is misaligned, as a result the full amount of the penalty is missing. The regulations state this is information which must be contained within the PCN. That the reduced amount is visible cannot compensate for this. The regulations, nor the ability to hold a driving license are dependent on a level of maths ability nor impose on the recipient of a PCN the need or ability to calculate what the penalty should be. 2:- And also The PCN states “ If the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge of £195 may be payable. We may then send you a charge certificate seeking payment of the increased amount” The 28 day period must by inference be 28 days beginning with date of notice. This being the only period given. Schedule 1(5)(2)(a) outlines the regulatory period for the issue of a charge certificate. It being “where no representations are made under paragraph 1 above, with the date on which the penalty charge notice is served;” Service of the PCN is taken to be two working days after date of posting, this needs be taken as the date of notice, unless it can be shown otherwise. The making of representations also has the same period of date of service (schedule 1(1)(3)) though once a charge certificate is served it proscribes the making of representations, further no legal remedy would exist to reset this by way of statutory declaration. Thus depriving a person of two days in which to make representations leaving them liable for the increased charge before the regulations allow, without any statutory protection All of these matters, each alone or all together do in my submission render the PCN non compliant with the regulations and thus a nullity as regards the demand that a penalty is due. And should be cancelled -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Fri, 27 Apr 2018 - 09:36
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#14
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 24 Apr 2018 Member No.: 97,670 |
Brilliant
Thank you so much |
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