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One quick question about DQ
lyfu
post Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 13:51
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Hello everyone.

First of all I would just like to say that I've handled this very poorly from the start. I told them I was the driver and I pretty much owned up to parking for 15 mins without a permit.

"Dear CPM, Hi, I got a ticket for parking next to my flat ---------------- when I was parking there for around 15 minutes because I was unpacking the rest of my stuff. The agency told me that it’s alright to park there to unpack. I think it’s very unfair to charge me £100 for this, even £60 is a lot of money. If you would like I can pay £4 which is more than the nearest car park charges for an hour." - The letter i sent them

My letting agency decided that they wont help me at all because apparently "its out of their control", so I just ignored every letter from CPM and Gladstone solicitors.

https://imgur.com/a/2Bhpx this is the first letter they sent me.

Now i got a claim form from the county court and they want me to pay £247.29. DATE OF ISSUE IS 08 November.

The big question is, should I just pay the fine or is there any chance that i could fight this?

This post has been edited by lyfu: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 12:12
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post Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 13:51
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Jlc
post Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 13:59
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Yes, definitely fight. Have a start by reading Jopson.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 14:14
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No, start by ACKNOWLEDING THE CLAIM

Online
Do not start the defence
Do NOT contest jurisdicigton unless you live outside E&W

What do the paritculars of claim state?
What is the DATE OF ISSUE? Once acknowledged you have 33 days from date of issue for your SIGNED emailed PDF defence to be received b ythe court.
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Redivi
post Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 14:18
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CPM or UKCPM (UK will be in faint print) ?

This post has been edited by Redivi: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 14:19
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lyfu
post Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 16:06
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 14:14) *
No, start by ACKNOWLEDING THE CLAIM

Online
Do not start the defence
Do NOT contest jurisdicigton unless you live outside E&W

What do the paritculars of claim state?
What is the DATE OF ISSUE? Once acknowledged you have 33 days from date of issue for your SIGNED emailed PDF defence to be received b ythe court.


I dont know what E&W stands for but I took a picture of the letter that I've received, could you please take a look? https://imgur.com/a/Ce5bMOC

QUOTE (Redivi @ Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 14:18) *
CPM or UKCPM (UK will be in faint print) ?


On the letter it says UK CAR PARK MANAGEMENT LIMITED, so i think its UKCPM. On the first ever letter it had this logo https://www.cpmappeals.co.uk/images/logo.png

This post has been edited by lyfu: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 16:07
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emergencychimp
post Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 16:14
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E&W = England & Wales
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 08:20
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Have you done the acknowledgement yet?
State the DATE OF ISSUE in this thread, so people dont have to click links...

Usual terrible particulars, giving no cause of action and not identifying the defendant as having any liability.
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lyfu
post Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 12:22
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 08:20) *
Have you done the acknowledgement yet?
State the DATE OF ISSUE in this thread, so people dont have to click links...

Usual terrible particulars, giving no cause of action and not identifying the defendant as having any liability.


Yeah, I did that and i selected that I will defend all of this claim. What happens next?
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Redivi
post Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 12:38
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Nothing at all will happen next - only that the deadline to submit the defence has been extended by two weeks

You wouldn't be the first defendant who failed to submit a defence because he was waiting for a reply to the acknowledgement
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 12:46
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Sigh

What
Is
The
Date
Of
Issue?

we dont ask things for no reason. This lets you and everyone know what the deadline is.

The next step is that you have told the court you have the claim form, and the claim form tells you to file a defence. So, you file a defence. Show us the draft. 2018 onwards ONLY when you do your research.
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peodude
post Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 13:14
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 12:46) *
Sigh

What
Is
The
Date
Of
Issue?

we dont ask things for no reason. This lets you and everyone know what the deadline is.

The next step is that you have told the court you have the claim form, and the claim form tells you to file a defence. So, you file a defence. Show us the draft. 2018 onwards ONLY when you do your research.


First post has been edited, DATE OF ISSUE IS 08 November.
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lyfu
post Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 14:10
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 12:46) *
Sigh

What
Is
The
Date
Of
Issue?

we dont ask things for no reason. This lets you and everyone know what the deadline is.

The next step is that you have told the court you have the claim form, and the claim form tells you to file a defence. So, you file a defence. Show us the draft. 2018 onwards ONLY when you do your research.


So do I actually have to go to court or is the defence done in writing? I think I've read somewhere that its best to actually show up there.
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 14:31
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Your defence will be submitted via email

Thgen, waaaaay down the line, you will attend a court hearing.

Before that there are a lot of steps.

Go to MSE Forum, NEWBIES thread, post 2. Easy to find if you google it. Bookmark it and then read it.
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Redivi
post Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 14:35
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UKCPM claims are usually issued by Gladstones solicitors

Regardless of the strength of the defence, Gladstones says that the case is reasonably straightforward and should be dealt with on papers without a hearing
We always advise objecting to this

One reason is that Gladstones likes to slide in fake witness statements and new legal arguments that you won't have the opportunity to dispute

If a hearing is arranged, they very often announce a week before that they won't be attending
Turning up yourself gives a big advantage
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lyfu
post Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 16:52
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 14:35) *
UKCPM claims are usually issued by Gladstones solicitors

Regardless of the strength of the defence, Gladstones says that the case is reasonably straightforward and should be dealt with on papers without a hearing
We always advise objecting to this

One reason is that Gladstones likes to slide in fake witness statements and new legal arguments that you won't have the opportunity to dispute

If a hearing is arranged, they very often announce a week before that they won't be attending
Turning up yourself gives a big advantage


So, 2 days until the deadline. I have no clue what I'm doing

I've read this https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016...al-parking.html and a bunch of other articles but i can't get anything. I'm a computer science student that has absolutely no clue about anything to do with law.

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Redivi
post Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 17:14
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Search here for some fairly recent threads for a residential claim with a defence statement

Ideal if Gladstones is involved because it will include the points about the failure to disclose a cause of action

Adapt the example that's nearest to your situation
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lyfu
post Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 18:07
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 17:14) *
Search here for some fairly recent threads for a residential claim with a defence statement

Ideal if Gladstones is involved because it will include the points about the failure to disclose a cause of action

Adapt the example that's nearest to your situation


Everyone seems to have some sort of valid reason. I don't really have any reason but I did my best.

Here's my embarrassing defence

QUOTE
1. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.

2. The facts are that the vehicle, registration XXXX, of which the Defendant is the registered keeper, was parked on the material date in an unmarked bay at XXXX

3. The Particulars of Claim state that the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or the driver of the vehicle(s);. These assertions indicate that the Claimant has failed to identify a Cause of Action, and is simply offering a menu of choices. As such, the Claim fails to comply with Civil Procedure Rule 16.4, or with Civil Practice Direction 16, paras. 7.3 to 7.5. Further, the particulars of the claim do not meet the requirements of Practice Direction 16 7.5 as there is nothing which specifies how the terms were breached.

4. The Defendant denies that any contract was formed between the driver and the Claimant because the defendant only stopped outside of his rented flat for less than 15 mins to unload groceries and other items.
a. No terms were agreed by the driver
b. No promise was made by the driver that could constitute consideration because there was no offer known nor accepted. No consideration flowed from the Claimant.
c. Absent the elements of a contract, there can be no breach of contract

10. The Defendant has the reasonable belief that the Claimant has not incurred £60 costs to pursue an alleged £100 debt. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, in Schedule 4, Para 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper, in this case £100.
11. In summary, the Claimant's particulars disclose no legal basis for the sum claimed, and the Court is invited to dismiss the claim in its entirety
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Redivi
post Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 21:10
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You've missed out everything that distinguishes residential cases from anywhere else

Try this recent thread with a defence written by Eljayjay
He has also written a number of defences for other residential cases

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=124513



This post has been edited by Redivi: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 05:22
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 11:04
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You have managed to miss everything about Jopson v Homeguard, which decided that unpacking stuff clearly is something residents can do

Thats one of your reasons!

I was also a computer science student, so you should understand the term "RTFM" applies a little here -you HAVE to read around in order to help yourself.

This post has been edited by nosferatu1001: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 11:05
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lyfu
post Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 15:51
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Mon, 3 Dec 2018 - 21:10) *
You've missed out everything that distinguishes residential cases from anywhere else

Try this recent thread with a defence written by Eljayjay
He has also written a number of defences for other residential cases

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=124513


It seems like that guy had something in his lease about parking. My agency specifically told me never to park there without the permit, except from the first month of moving in



QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 11:04) *
You have managed to miss everything about Jopson v Homeguard, which decided that unpacking stuff clearly is something residents can do

Thats one of your reasons!

I was also a computer science student, so you should understand the term "RTFM" applies a little here -you HAVE to read around in order to help yourself.


So I added this to my defence - The defendant had a right-of-way to enable him to access the property, and that the right to stop for a few moments or minutes to put down passengers or unload awkward items was a necessary incident of this easement. The position was analogous to the right to unload which was the subject of Bulstrode v Lambert [1953] 2 All ER 728.

This post has been edited by lyfu: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 15:52
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