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Advice on Court Date
Khalil
post Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 15:45
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Hi

Hoping for some advice and feedback with people that may have had the same experience

- Had 6 points on my license already
- May 2018 received 3 points NIP for A412 Uxbridge Rd, submitted forms pleading guilty as driver(40 speed limit doing 55mph)
- June 2018, same road got another 3 points but further down the road(40 speed limit, doing 54mph)
- Submitted a letter on 2nd NIP with a letter requesting they could show leniency and offer me a course(only doing 1 mph over the limit), but got a letter back saying they cannot do anything
- Got a SJPN for both NIP to be heard in Court on 9th Nov at Oxford Court, completed a mitigation circumstances mentioning things like how i travel to work every day and need a car, my wife drives but she is on a school run and cannot drop me. How it would be a great issue if i lost my license


The above is a quick summary, but i understand i attend court, i plead guilty(as i have done already). I get an option to say something, try to plead with court to show leniency on my sentence

Any pointers or assistance is appreciated pls

thank you in advance


This post has been edited by Khalil: Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 15:47
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post Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 15:45
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Jlc
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 15:10
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I think it was 'decided' rather than 'deceived'...


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

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cp8759
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 15:14
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 15:05) *
QUOTE (Khalil @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 13:24) *
thanks, but we deceived to send the children to school outside our borough and thus we cannot use this service.

You probably shouldn’t admit that on a public forum.

Why not? The OP may be sending his children to a school that isn't covered by catchment area rules.


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The Rookie
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 15:39
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Indeed, really not sure what SP thinks the issue is, the choice to send children further has been around for years, my secondary school was 13 miles from home, I bypassed the two which were 7 miles away.

Travel support is to the nearest SUITABLE school though.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 15:40


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Logician
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 16:47
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The issue lies with the word 'deceived', some councils have attempted to prosecute under the Fraud Act for false information given to obtain admission to schools, although it is not clear that the act covers it, and the place might be withdrawn if deception is discovered.


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southpaw82
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 16:57
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 15:14) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 15:05) *
QUOTE (Khalil @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 13:24) *
thanks, but we deceived to send the children to school outside our borough and thus we cannot use this service.

You probably shouldn’t admit that on a public forum.

Why not? The OP may be sending his children to a school that isn't covered by catchment area rules.

That probably wouldn’t require deception then.

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 15:39) *
Indeed, really not sure what SP thinks the issue is, the choice to send children further has been around for years, my secondary school was 13 miles from home, I bypassed the two which were 7 miles away.

Travel support is to the nearest SUITABLE school though.



QUOTE (Logician @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 16:47) *
The issue lies with the word 'deceived', some councils have attempted to prosecute under the Fraud Act for false information given to obtain admission to schools, although it is not clear that the act covers it, and the place might be withdrawn if deception is discovered.

This.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 18:16
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I read that as a miss spelling of decided, as otherwise it’s not how you would write that sentence.


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666
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 19:55
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 16:39) *
Indeed, really not sure what SP thinks the issue is, the choice to send children further has been around for years, my secondary school was 13 miles from home, I bypassed the two which were 7 miles away.

Travel support is to the nearest SUITABLE school though.


Might not the court take the view that this particular “hardship” is of the OP’s own making, and could be avoided by changing to the nearest suitable school?
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The Rookie
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 20:09
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Well it may be of their making as such, but it’s not something readily changed now.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Khalil
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 12:10
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thank you everyone, all comments are appreciated, pls a little more help

- So far I have prepared a letter from employer stating character/my job and the need for a license, do I give this in before the case begins
- took google maps print out showing car journey to work and train journey(to show difference, probably thinking to mention the fact while
it is 2.5 hours by public transport, but because of the many legs of the journey this could be more as I could get delayed)
- Updated statement from my credit card(this was what I sent with SJPN as proof of all the money I am spending on fuel)
- Made some notes for myself as follows(using FAQ from site)
• First of all I want to say that I am ashamed to be before you, & not here to defend the seriousness of my actions that I wholeheartedly admit to.
• I do genuinely believe that speeding is a very serious offence & I cant offer any excuse or explanation as to why I should be travelling at that speed,
I immediately pleaded guilty to the offence as not to waste the courts time
• I realize that the offence puts me in a situation where my license can be taken away but I do wish for you to consider the wider effects of how that will
affect the employees of my business their family & my families livelihood
o Affect on Employer – Letter from my Employer
o I am Director & owner of ***** providing IT consultancy to companies in the UK. Currently working on a large project with xxx
o The company also employs my wife *** and ****, they work to assist me with general office duties
o Growing well in 10 months since we started
o I am sole external sales force focusing on trying to bringing in new business
o Loss of project with (current employer)t would immediately result in a landslide loss of revenue approx. 90%
o Do not have anyone who can take over my role & loss of this business we would immediately have to let
*** and **** go & within a couple of weeks would result in the total failure of the business
o My families only source of income & therefore I couldn’t pay our mortgage & bills

Query should I take payslips, company bank statement(I never sent these in the first place)
6 copies of each of the above

This post has been edited by Khalil: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 13:20
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Jlc
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 13:10
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How the points were accumulated are not relevant. (Although a bench may be influenced)

You need to concentrate on the impact on others and that the travel alternatives are exceptional. The amount spent on fuel isn't strictly relevant.

To me that reads that you are an IT contractor with a current engagement with RBS. It's your company so how can you prepare a letter from your employer? RBS do not employ you but contract services from your company.

Does your company provide a service to RBS that they can't easily source elsewhere?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Khalil
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 13:24
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 13:10) *
How the points were accumulated are not relevant. (Although a bench may be influenced)

You need to concentrate on the impact on others and that the travel alternatives are exceptional. The amount spent on fuel isn't strictly relevant.

To me that reads that you are an IT contractor with a current engagement with RBS. It's your company so how can you prepare a letter from your employer? RBS do not employ you but contract services from your company.

Does your company provide a service to RBS that they can't easily source elsewhere?



thank you, you are correct i am contractor(sorry RBS prepared the letter) for me. to be honest they could easily get another contractor but the letter states that i am specialist oin my area and best suited for the role(from 3 other team members

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The Rookie
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 14:05
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That's helpful then, as it makes you appear key to a large company.

As an aside my BIL used to contract for RBS as an IT specialist.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Khalil
post Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 14:05
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Hi All

A very big thank you for all your and advice.

Summary of the Day

- Arrived at Court approx. 2 hours before, was told by reception I would need to wait, but my turn came a lot sooner.
- Usher took me into the Court Room
- 3 Judges on the Main Desk
- 1 clerk9asked me to confirm who I was
- 1 Prosecution Lady(who ready my offence)
- Asked how I pleaded and I said I was guilty
- Had opportunity to say something and apologised for my mistake and wasting court time(I was nervous like hell)
- Then they told me I am looking at a ban, but if I have any circumstances then I can present these(but I would need to come into the box and do this under oath)
- Presented my circumstances
- Working for ltd Company, I am owner wife and daughter are employee
- Large contract with xx and they wrote me a letter explaining my character and how important I was and that I would not be easily replaced.
- if I lost my license it cause loss to my company and then result in my wife and daughter losing their job
- further resulting if issue paying the bills
- I cannot travel by public transport due to me carrying specialist equipment with me
- 3 Judges took everything into account and verdict is no ban, but 6 points(as it was two cases) and £506 fine
- strictly told drive carefully another convection then 12 months automatic ban

Overall a real experience and a lot to learn from this, thank god and thank you all again

At the moment I will have 9 points so again on border line

6 points
3 points due to expire in July 2019
** 3 points expired on sept 2018, but will go from license in sep 2019**
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 09:52
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Meaning youre actually on 6 points, as the totting value is 3 years from offence date, not the 4 years it shows on your licence. Still, hopefully it has taught you a good lesson here, to avoid this in future! smile.gif
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The Rookie
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 11:15
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QUOTE (Khalil @ Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 14:05) *
** 3 points expired on sept 2018, but will go from license in sep 2019**

I think that indicates hes on 9........
Would have been 12 at the time the latest offence was committed, now on 9 as 3 dropped off in September

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 11:17


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 13:08
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Doh, tired brain misread
So yes, 9 points and a careful time needed!
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