PCN not received - wrong address |
PCN not received - wrong address |
Wed, 24 Jul 2019 - 18:53
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 24 Jul 2019 Member No.: 104,936 |
Hi All,
Just want to say thanks in advance for taking the time to look at my problem. Sadly I am a victim of my own mistake. I've received a letter today (though dated 18/07/19) from a bailiff requesting £513. I've outlined the details of the letter below. I have done what seems to be the common mistake of only updating my driving license address with the DVLA and not the v5c. It has unfortunately been a long time too, I moved in Feb 2017. I pay my tax via direct debit so it has never flagged up. Is it worth me taking of the route of PE2 & PE3 or do I need to accept my own demise? I completely accept I was likely in error for the original offence (haven't seen the PCN so don't have full details.) so am happy to pay the PCN. Date letter received: 24/07/19 Letter dated 18/07/19 Offence: Moving Traffic Contravention - performing a prohibited right turn Issued:06/02/2019 Issuer: TfL Total to pay:£513 Warrant of control issued, letter references that notices may of been issued to previous address. An application has now been made for a warrant of control to be re-issued for current address. I've seen the following sections on other threads which are worth citing? QUOTE 10.68 However, if the name and address on the warrant is incorrect, this would suggest that the order for recovery also gave the incorrect name and address. If so, the order must be re-served before the authority can ask for permission to prepare a warrant. However, if the debtor has moved since the issue of the warrant the bailiff should return the warrant to the local authority for them to apply for a reissue. 10.69 Authorities should instruct their bailiffs to liaise with them before taking this action. If the name or address on the county court order Warrant was incorrect the name or address on the Notice to Owner and the Charge Certificate may also have been incorrect, and neither have been served on the motorist. If the NtO and/or the Charge Certificate were never served the Warrant of Execution should not be served. An NtO (or Charge Certificate) should be served to the name or the address established by the bailiff Thanks again! This post has been edited by RingoStarr: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 - 20:09 |
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Wed, 24 Jul 2019 - 18:53
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Wed, 24 Jul 2019 - 20:29
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#2
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 24 Jul 2019 Member No.: 104,936 |
Hey All,
I've drafted a reply based upon feedback in an other thread. Some advice on whether this is the best response would be appreciated. I've got one comment which i've marked up in bold. QUOTE I would like to make a statutory declaration under clause 1, I did not receive a PCN. This is as per the guidance from transport for London available online.
I did not receive the original PCN, for a contravention on 06/02/2019. The PCN must have been sent to a prior address. I have provided evidence of my current address which you can find enclosed alongside this form. This is the address which is also stored by the DVLA as of 23/03/2016. This is true based upon my driving license issue date, is this ambiguous enough a statement that it would hold as true? Or, should I avoid mention? Or, Should I mention that I accept my mistake and have updated my v5c accordingly? I have only become aware of the PCN following a letter from the bailiffs jbw, received on the 24/07/19 and dated 18/07/19. As I had not received the Notice to Owner I have been denied the opportunity to either pay the charge or to make representation. I am confident that Transport for London will recognise there has been circumstances related to a change of address, which have unfortunately led to the PCN not been received. I am further confident that they will be aware of the government guidance on how to proceed in such situations. If I may, I quote from 'Operational Guidance to Local Authorities' 10.68 However, if the name and address on the warrant is incorrect, this would suggest that the order for recovery also gave the incorrect name and address. If so, the order must be re-served before the authority can ask for permission to prepare a warrant. However, if the debtor has moved since the issue of the warrant the bailiff should return the warrant to the local authority for them to apply for a reissue. 10.69 Authorities should instruct their bailiffs to liaise with them before taking this action. If the name or address on the county court order Warrant was incorrect the name or address on the Notice to Owner and the Charge Certificate may also have been incorrect, and neither have been served on the motorist. If the NtO and/or the Charge Certificate were never served the Warrant of Execution should not be served. An NtO (or Charge Certificate) should be served to the name or the address established by the bailiff. This post has been edited by RingoStarr: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 - 20:51 |
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Wed, 24 Jul 2019 - 22:03
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 21,014 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
OP, you are the latest in a very long line of OPs who fail to update their V5C on moving house, yet always seem to manage to update their Driver Licence address.
IMHO, based on what you have told us, I don't think you have any chance at all of reverting the matter to the original Notice to Owner. Reason I say this is because the council can, and will, oppose your Out-of-Time declaration. They will state that all statutory enforcement documents were sent to the V5 address. At this point, the TEC court officer will reject your application. You can then ask for a review by a County Court judge and pay a non-recoverable £100. If the judge agrees with your OOT then the warrant is cancelled and the matter is reverted to the original Notice to Owner. However, if as is more likely in your case, you are rejected, you will now have to pay £100 + £508. I would say that not updating your V5 for well over 2 years means you are very unlikely to succeed with an OOT, but see what the others say. However submit one anyway as it gets the bailiffs off your back for a little while so you can hopefully organise the finance to pay. If you want another view on the likelihood of getting your OOT accepted, you could also contact Sheila at: www.bailiffadviceonline.co.uk |
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Thu, 25 Jul 2019 - 08:14
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#4
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 25 Jul 2019 Member No.: 104,944 |
Before filing the PE2 and PE3 get ALL the details from the Council about the matter and consider these points. These are what the TEC look at when dealing with the application:
Court officer notes for accepting/declining Applications Court Officer Signing * File check to be completed when processing the initial Rejected Response. File contents: Rejected Response from LA (including any statements) Stat Dec / Witness Statement OOT application Any attachments from the respondent Purpose – to grant / refuse permission for the respondent to file their stat dec / witness statement late. You are not looking for anything else e.g. whether the penalty charge is valid etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Begin by reading the respondent’s reason on the OOT for not responding within the time limit. Tip: If they do not answer the question (they refer to the original contravention only or write about payments made etc), refuse the application. Tip: If the respondent has provided a valid reason why they could not make the deadline and were unable to apply for a time extension and they provide proof (holiday tickets / hospital letter etc), grant the application. If the respondent has provided a valid reason why they could not make the deadline and were unable to apply for a time extension, but you are still unsure of their reasons (no proof enclosed), read the statement provided by the LA to make the decision. Tip: If the LA do not send a full statement but simply advise they reject the application, automatically grant the application. If the respondent states that they moved addresses, check the system details for the date of the move …. Tip: If the respondent has stated in their OOT that they have moved address before the notice to owner (NTO) was served or provided dates of when they moved so we can see the NTO was not served, the COO should be accepted. If the LA state in their rejection that they obtained the address from the DVLA but the respondent moved before NTO, the COO would still be accepted. If they have only stated that they moved address and have provided no details, the COO would be refused. If the respondent admits that they did not notify the DVLA of their address change, the COO would be refused. You should supply any proof you have to back up the fact that you didn't receive the Notice to Owner. If you say the move was more recent, the wrong address held could be due to the 5/6 weeks that the DVLA take to update their records!!! |
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Thu, 25 Jul 2019 - 09:00
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#5
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 24 Jul 2019 Member No.: 104,936 |
Thanks for the replies so far everyone.
I’m not going to be able to get the forms witnessed until Monday. Shall I inform the bailiffs I’ve contacted the TfL and submitted the forms. Or, just tell them nothing / ignore their calls? |
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Sat, 27 Jul 2019 - 12:25
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#6
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 25 Jul 2019 Member No.: 104,944 |
Thanks for the replies so far everyone. I’m not going to be able to get the forms witnessed until Monday. Shall I inform the bailiffs I’ve contacted the TfL and submitted the forms. Or, just tell them nothing / ignore their calls? It takes 10 days for them to get the address on the Warrant of Control changed, you can check with the TEC Monday if this has been done. The Bailiffs need to serve a Notice of Enforcement, this gives you 7 days. I would personally email them and let them know you are filing a PE2 and PE3 and the matter is "Sub Judice". The Council should notify the Bailiff not to carry out any enforcement action anyway, but best to notify them directly. |
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Sat, 27 Jul 2019 - 12:40
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 29,280 Joined: 16 Jan 2008 Member No.: 16,671 |
It takes 10 days for them to get the address on the Warrant of Control changed, Can I ask your source for that statement? -------------------- |
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Mon, 30 Sep 2019 - 16:15
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#8
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 24 Jul 2019 Member No.: 104,936 |
Good evening all,
I just thought I'd update you all that my appeal was successful. I simply stated the fact that I was not at the address at the time and provided a proof of address (bank statement) dated for the month of the PCN. No mentioned of the v5c required. For future reference I submitted a PE2 & PE3 with the below. For you information I did speak with TFL and TEC as to the proper procedure which I referenced in the letter. QUOTE I would like to make a Out of Time Statutory Declaration as I have not received a PCN. This is as per the guidance from Transport for London who referred me on to the TEC. I am submitting this form following a phone call with TEC Advisor Joe Bloggs on Date. I did not receive the original PCN, for a contravention on date. The PCN must have been sent to a prior address. I have provided evidence of my address at that time alongside this form. I have only become aware of the PCN following a letter from the bailiffs bailiff company ltd, received on the xx/xx/19 and dated xx/xx/19. As I had not received the Notice to Owner I have been denied the opportunity to either pay the charge or to make representation. I am confident that Transport for London will recognise there has been circumstances of change of address which have unfortunately led to the PCN not been received. I look forward to receiving the new PCN and resolving this issue in the proper manner. Thanks for your time and consideration of my case. |
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Mon, 30 Sep 2019 - 16:31
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 21,014 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
Well done, but the PCN still stands. What has happened with this, have you appealed it ?
I am surprised your OOT got past TfL, who would have had the right to object. Maybe it went in front of somebody who lacks knowledge of the procedure. |
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