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Problems with JBW and Barking and Dagenham council please help!
hazedunks
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 07:51
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I had my car clamped today which is on PCP finance by JBW baliffs with regard to a ticket received in January 2019. The only problem is I appealed the original ticket which was for a bus lane contravention and I did not hear anything back from the council. I also emailed the council despite not hearing back from them and did not recieve any response.

I assumed the matter was closed until today. When JBW clamped my car they informed me that barking and dagenham had been sending all correspondence regarding my ticket to number 63 whereas I live at 69 hence none of the original correspondence had been received by myself. I had to pay the £513 to release the clamp as I needed the car for work I was just wondering if i can claim the money back as the scenario was not my fault.

Ive also checked the baliff licence for the individual on the MOJ website and it appears they are not employed by JBW but by brighton court if this makes any difference to anything?
Thanks for any help.

This post has been edited by hazedunks: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 07:52
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post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 07:51
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stamfordman
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 08:22
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Who is the registered keeper - is it the finance company?

Did PCN go to them first and was it then reissued to you and was the address correct? You say you got the PCN...

I think also a car on finance should not be clamped or taken by bailiffs.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 08:23
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hazedunks
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 09:05
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I am the registered keeper. I got the original pcn and i appealed it all further correspondence was sent to the wrong address by the council.
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stamfordman
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 09:07
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QUOTE (hazedunks @ Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 10:05) *
I am the registered keeper. I got the original pcn and i appealed it all further correspondence was sent to the wrong address by the council.



What address is on the V5C reg doc - go check it now.

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hcandersen
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 09:13
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So, to be clear:

You received a postal PCN from the council addressed to you at number ***?

You made representations - how, when, do you have a copy?

You heard nothing further until contacted by the bailiffs who were acting under a warrant against ** ?

And where was your car parked when it was clamped?

Pl post copies of your subsequent correspondence with the council?


Yes you could get your money refunded through a simple procedure, but only if you answer our questions accurately and promptly.

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hazedunks
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 10:28
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Hey I got a pcn from the council at my old address which was forwarded by royal mail and or the tenant at the time i fail to remember. I appealed the ticket via barking and dagenham online portal. On the online portal i put my address as 69 my telephone number and my email. I did not hear back from them and i sent them another email still i did not hear back from them.

This all took place in Jan 2019. The baliffs clamped my car outsidemy house at 69 *** they said they sent a NTO on the 9th of August but it was sent to 63** they further confirmed all correspondence had been sent to 63***. And that is the story so far. I sent the above information to barking and dagenham council via their web portal and as usual they say their is a 10 day waiting time for any response.
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stamfordman
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 10:37
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QUOTE (hazedunks @ Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 11:28) *
Hey I got a pcn from the council at my old address which was forwarded by royal mail and or the tenant at the time i fail to remember.



To clear this up - are you in possession of the V5C - if so you must change the address on it.

However, if this is a lease hire car usually the hire firm is the registered keeper. In which case do they have your current address on file.

The subsequent address mix up is another issue and one that could get your fees refunded through an out of time process that must be done properly.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 10:38
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Neil B
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 11:25
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QUOTE (hazedunks @ Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 11:28) *
On the online portal i put my address as 69

Is this documented?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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hazedunks
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 11:50
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I will check my email however usually when you submit anything online at barking and dagenham they do not send copy to your email. Edit Just checked this has not been documented. Except for on the baliffs letters which states 63 hence they must have know my new road from me mentioning it I assume.

What is the next step i take an OOT declaration or something else?

Thanks
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Neil B
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 12:01
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QUOTE (hazedunks @ Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 12:50) *
Except for on the baliffs letters which states 63 hence they must have know my new road from me mentioning it I assume.

No, the bailiff has just traced you.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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hazedunks
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 12:06
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What would you advice neil because if for instance the council had sent my documents to my old address i have a tenant there who forwards all letters to me and i also had royal mail redirection in place. The baliff also stated the council sent a NTO to 63 *******.

This post has been edited by hazedunks: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 12:07
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Neil B
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 12:23
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QUOTE (hazedunks @ Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 13:06) *
What would you advice neil

See Stamfordman's questions in post #7

You might also ask the council for a full copy of what you submitted online.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 13:57


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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hcandersen
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 12:38
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IMO, all that matters is this:

On the online portal i put my address as 69 my telephone number and my email. I did not hear back from them and i sent them another email still i did not hear back from them.


You have notified them of your correct address which they were therefore OBLIGED to use.

Download the OOT and SD forms and we'll draft for you. Not difficult.

Grounds for SD: you made representations but did not receive a reply.

OOT: The authority used the DVLA address for the PCN which I received at address B by virtue of mail forwarding arrangements I put in place at address A when I moved on or around***.

I made representations online and AS REQUIRED BY THE INSTRUCTIONS IN THE PCN included my PCN number and up to date address for service of notices.

The authority ignored these instructions but instead continued to issue notices to address A where mail forwarding arrangements had lapsed. Consequently, none of the subsequent notices was received.

As the court will copy this to the authority then if they were to challenge this OOT application they would have to demonstrate that any NOR and subsequent notices were addressed to ****. In addition, if they were to claim that no such instructions were included within my representations then they would have to produce a copy of these in support.


I think covers it.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 12:39
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hazedunks
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 12:58
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Thanks HC will do that now just a quick question what is the SD form? Thanks
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stamfordman
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 12:59
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 13:38) *
The authority ignored these instructions but instead continued to issue notices to address A where mail forwarding arrangements had lapsed.


No - the council seems to have gone for number 63 instead of 69. The previous address is a different matter (and does matter for the future but we've not had an answer to my questions about the V5C and hire company).
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hazedunks
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 13:01
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Hey stamford man the address on the v5c is where the original pcn was sent where my tenant currently resides and forwards mail to me and that is the address the finance company also have.
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Neil B
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 13:09
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 13:38) *
IMO, all that matters is this:

On the online portal i put my address as 69 my telephone number and my email. I did not hear back from them and i sent them another email still i did not hear back from them.

If OP is 100% certain of that?

QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 13:38) *
Grounds for SD: you made representations but did not receive a reply.

Would be wrong as it's a London bus lane.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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hazedunks
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 13:59
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Neil b iam 99.999% sure.
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Neil B
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 14:04
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 14:09) *
it's a London bus lane.

Or is it? We've seen nothing.
What contravention is cited online?

Also find out from 63 what they did with the notices?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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hcandersen
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 14:17
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NeilB, you're spot on, it's a bus lane.

OP:
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/unde...ent-process#rod

So, slight change, your grounds would be 'Did not receive Enforcement Notice'.

As regards the OP's certainty, it doesn't have to be 100%:
Filing a false declaration knowingly and wilfully does not mean 100% certainty. 99.999% is OK.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/go...orm-pe2-eng.doc

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/go...orm-pe3-eng.doc

The OP is certain enough to assert then IMO it falls to the authority, should they object, to prove the opposite. The only way they would not have the ability to disprove would be if they did not receive reps i.e. they could not show that the OP did not include their correct address for the purposes of service if they do not have reps in the first place. Buy we can only go on what the OP has told us albeit that it would be better if they could post a copy of their reps.
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