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Can councils charge more to pay by cash?
Fredd
post Sat, 31 Aug 2019 - 20:31
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Just curious really, but since I'm no expert on council parking I thought I'd ask...

Can councils (Reading, in this case) actually impose massively different parking charges dependent solely on the payment method?

QUOTE
RBC has now reduced the daily charge from a maximum of £10 to £3 for RingGo app users and parking for 30 minutes is free except for the 20p ‘convenience charge’.

A maximum £10 fee still remains for pay and display machine users.


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post Sat, 31 Aug 2019 - 20:31
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DancingDad
post Sun, 1 Sep 2019 - 09:49
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Lawfully as long as charges match the TRO I cannot see why not.
Collateral challenges such as discriminating against those who prefer cash or are not tech minded, often elderly could be possible.
But places like Barnett got away with removing cash from options of how to pay years back and many others have gone to phone payments only, even if only by default by not repairing machines.
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The Slithy Tove
post Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 07:04
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Looking the other way round, councils (and others) are quite happy to charge more for pay by phone/app, citing the need to cover the costs of RingGo et al. Yet they don't consider the savings they make in not having to handle all that cash.

Or put another way, they'll always find a way to fleece you and make up any reason they like to do so.
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jdh
post Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 15:37
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Our local council wanted did a deal to bring in card payments and apps instead of coins to save money, they then went public with the plan and faced so much criticism they first delayed it and then after complaining it was costing them too much to store the new machines finally introduced it in some car parks but added coins back into the mix. They now have a more expensive scheme to operate that brings in the same money it took before as the paying customer doesn't want to pay a 20p "convenience" charge on a 60p parking session. If that wasn't bad enough they never did get round to changing the parking orders which state that payment must be made by coin and a ticket must be displayed - both hard to do if you use the app.
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Fredd
post Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 16:59
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QUOTE (jdh @ Mon, 2 Sep 2019 - 16:37) *
the paying customer doesn't want to pay a 20p "convenience" charge on a 60p parking session.

Imagine how delighted the customers of Reading BC are going to be at having to pay the 20p "convenience" fee for half an hour of free parking, then!



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TonyS
post Tue, 3 Sep 2019 - 12:39
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Is there any suggestion of councils actually charging more for paying cash? I mean more than they used to charge, or more than the published price. If not then you could look at it as a discount for those paying with the app, although I agree that doesn't make as good a headline.
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Fredd
post Tue, 3 Sep 2019 - 15:15
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QUOTE (TonyS @ Tue, 3 Sep 2019 - 13:39) *
Is there any suggestion of councils actually charging more for paying cash?

Well, I'd say £3 if you use the app but £10 if you use the P&D machines is a lot more than a cash handling discount.


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oldstoat
post Tue, 3 Sep 2019 - 18:28
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i seem to remember that it was found to be illegal for the councils to charge a premium for credit card payments. this seems to be the other side of the coin.


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bama
post Tue, 3 Sep 2019 - 21:10
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Dig out the TRO (not from that godawful on-line TRO repository)


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Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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TonyS
post Wed, 4 Sep 2019 - 13:25
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Tue, 3 Sep 2019 - 16:15) *
QUOTE (TonyS @ Tue, 3 Sep 2019 - 13:39) *
Is there any suggestion of councils actually charging more for paying cash?

Well, I'd say £3 if you use the app but £10 if you use the P&D machines is a lot more than a cash handling discount.

Sorry, I should have said more than they used to charge for cash, not more than they now charge for other payment methods. The quote reads as if cash prices are unchanged.
QUOTE
RBC has now reduced the daily charge from a maximum of £10 to £3 for RingGo app users and parking for 30 minutes is free except for the 20p ‘convenience charge’.
A maximum £10 fee still remains for pay and display machine users.

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cp8759
post Sun, 15 Sep 2019 - 20:06
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Sat, 31 Aug 2019 - 21:31) *
Just curious really, but since I'm no expert on council parking I thought I'd ask...

Can councils (Reading, in this case) actually impose massively different parking charges dependent solely on the payment method?

Providing they are not doing so for an improper purpose, I don't see how we could argue this is unlawful.


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Fredd
post Sun, 15 Sep 2019 - 21:26
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The reason it struck me as unreasonable is that they're disadvantaging drivers who are unable to use an app or mobile phone if they pay with cash for one parking period, while being quite happy to accept cash as an alternative payment method for other parking periods in the exact same location.


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The Rookie
post Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 06:56
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One could argue discrimination against the elderly who are much less likely to have a smart phone (my Dad doesn't).


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cp8759
post Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 14:18
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 07:56) *
One could argue discrimination against the elderly who are much less likely to have a smart phone (my Dad doesn't).

A claim could be brought under the Equality Act I suppose, the first step would be via the council's complaints procedure.


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Korting
post Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 22:44
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 15:18) *
A claim could be brought under the Equality Act I suppose, the first step would be via the council's complaints procedure.


Could such a claim be brought by drivers of diesel engined vehicles who are charged a surcharge just because of the type of engine fitted to the vehicle?

After all it is discriminatory.
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southpaw82
post Tue, 17 Sep 2019 - 08:06
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QUOTE (Korting @ Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 23:44) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 15:18) *
A claim could be brought under the Equality Act I suppose, the first step would be via the council's complaints procedure.


Could such a claim be brought by drivers of diesel engined vehicles who are charged a surcharge just because of the type of engine fitted to the vehicle?

After all it is discriminatory.

Is it discriminatory in relation to a protected characteristic?


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cp8759
post Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 22:17
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QUOTE (Korting @ Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 23:44) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 15:18) *
A claim could be brought under the Equality Act I suppose, the first step would be via the council's complaints procedure.


Could such a claim be brought by drivers of diesel engined vehicles who are charged a surcharge just because of the type of engine fitted to the vehicle?

After all it is discriminatory.

Discrimination is not illegal as such. You could argue that our income tax and welfare system discriminates against the rich and in favour of the poor, but I don't see many well remunerated senior managers in FTSE 100 companies claiming that they're being discriminated against.


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Fredd
post Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 22:26
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 23:17) *
You could argue that our income tax and welfare system discriminates against the rich and in favour of the poor

You could, but...

In any case, the rich move their income and assets offshore. For example there's a reason so many F1 drivers are domiciled in Monaco, and it doesn't have much to do with a love of extremely cramped streets.


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cp8759
post Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 22:35
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 23:26) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 23:17) *
You could argue that our income tax and welfare system discriminates against the rich and in favour of the poor

You could, but...

In any case, the rich move their income and assets offshore. For example there's a reason so many F1 drivers are domiciled in Monaco, and it doesn't have much to do with a love of extremely cramped streets.

I would point out that, as per https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39641222

This chart from the Institute for Fiscal Studies shows that about 90% of income tax is paid by the 50% of taxpayers with the highest incomes, while more than a quarter is paid by the richest 1%.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Fredd
post Fri, 20 Sep 2019 - 23:23
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Fine, but what are their effective tax rates? I wouldn't mind paying £1m in tax if my income was £10m, whereas there might be 200 people earning £25k paying the same amount in total but rather unhappy to be paying at twice the rate.


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