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CEL Court Proceedings - DQ Small Claims Track, Threads merged x3
WR2019
post Fri, 18 Jan 2019 - 17:44
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Hi guys,

This is all rather new to me.

CEL have used their typical bullying tactics on me and launched a court claim. The case got stayed 2nd Jan 2019 after I filed my defence and they failed to respond in time. However the stay was lifted and I’ve now received their Small Track questionnaire and have to send this to the court and the claimant (CEL) by the 31st Jan (I’m also awaiting to receive their questionnaire).

In a nutshell:

I entered a carpark that I never knew was ANPR controlled (I’ve lived in the area for 25 years and never had any issues).

There was no signage on the date of the date of my visit to the Costa Coffee in the shopping parade - furthermore they can't expect photographs to claim this as I didn’t know it was ANPR controlled thus there was no reason for me to look out for any signage. They to date haven't showed me evidence that there was signage and T&C's on the date of the alleged breach.

A year or so before the incident I had two back surgeries that haven’t gone well and since I have been in severe agony. I saw the orthopaedic consultant a few days after this “parking contravention” about my pain and what can be done (I have the summary letter from his clinic where he advised having a further spinal fusion procedure to rid my sciatic symptoms and pain).

The above point is relevant as the reason why I spent 2 hour and 28 mins in Costa Coffee, as I was around 1hr 30 mins into my coffee I started to experience nerve pain and weakness in my legs. This was very random and extremely painful but in line with the side effect of my previous two surgeries. I obviously was not going to get into my car and drive until the symptoms had warn off, if I did I would have risked my life and the life of other road users/pedestrians (many children and elderly are nearby as there’s a doctors surgeries, pharmacy and a school very close by).

Ultimately, I’ve defended their charge based on no evidence of signage and my extenuating medical circumstances that were for the greater good. I would have appealed via the standard routes POPLA etc. beforehand had I received any of the claimants prior fines or letters. However the first I knew about the incident was with the county court claim form that the claimant has filed against me (incident Feb 2018, claim form Nov 2018). They've not send any evidence of what fines were sent etc. such as recorded delivery confirmation etc.

I now am in the process of completing this questionnaire and have found this blog insightful so was wondering if anyone may be able to help in this matter?

Thanks!
Wayne
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post Fri, 18 Jan 2019 - 17:44
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WR2019
post Mon, 1 Apr 2019 - 15:27
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What's that? And is this still available under a small track claim such as this one?
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WR2019
post Wed, 1 May 2019 - 11:41
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Dear all,

I filed an n244 form and the case has been struck out (both parties need to contact the court within 7 days if they contest it).

The case has got as far as a court date. I wasn't sure were to apply for costs. I rang up today and was told it should have been on the n244 form but there was no section for costs.

How would I apply for costs now? And under the small claims track, what costs can I get?

Cheers guys!
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WR2019
post Wed, 1 May 2019 - 11:55
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So far I had to spend several hours researching the case the law, filing a defence, sending letters via recorded delivery, drafting a witness statement and other administrative tasks.

I'm registered dyslexic with a specific reference to the extra time it takes me to read and write.

I'm not sure what the going rate is for a non-legal person so would really appreciate your input.

Thanks!
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Sheffield Dave
post Wed, 1 May 2019 - 19:04
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QUOTE (WR2019 @ Wed, 1 May 2019 - 11:55) *
So far I had to spend several hours researching the case the law, filing a defence, sending letters via recorded delivery, drafting a witness statement and other administrative tasks.

I'm registered dyslexic with a specific reference to the extra time it takes me to read and write.

I'm not sure what the going rate is for a non-legal person so would really appreciate your input.

Unless you can show that the claimant had acted (very) unreasonably, you can only claim time at £19 p/h for up to half a day in court for a hearing. Time in preparation etc isn't claimable.
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WR2019
post Thu, 2 May 2019 - 01:42
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Ah thanks for the heads up on this. I have submitted another N244 form and claimed for around £150 ish for prep of defence, witness statement, seeking legal advice, ad hoc costs for postage etc. And said that the claimant had basically ignored all clear and bold court orders thus far, exemplifying someone who doesn't give a monkeys about the court process and has no interest in recouping their skeptical financial loss - maybe the judge might deem this to be acting unreasonably/wasting my time and the courts time, abusing the court system as a means of enforcing their debt collection/scaring people into paying unlawful charges.

Maybe I'm really mistaken but no harm in trying - stay tuned...
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emanresu
post Thu, 2 May 2019 - 05:55
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QUOTE
but no harm in trying


There is but go ahead.

Have a read and see which one you are

https://www.judiciary.uk/about-the-judiciar...district-judge/
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Redivi
post Thu, 2 May 2019 - 08:35
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QUOTE (WR2019 @ Thu, 2 May 2019 - 02:42) *
Ah thanks for the heads up on this. I have submitted another N244 form and claimed for around £150 ish for prep of defence, witness statement, seeking legal advice, ad hoc costs for postage etc. And said that the claimant had basically ignored all clear and bold court orders thus far, exemplifying someone who doesn't give a monkeys about the court process and has no interest in recouping their skeptical financial loss - maybe the judge might deem this to be acting unreasonably/wasting my time and the courts time, abusing the court system as a means of enforcing their debt collection/scaring people into paying unlawful charges.

Maybe I'm really mistaken but no harm in trying - stay tuned...

Can you confirm I've understood correctly ?

You filed an N244 and paid £255 for a set-aside
This has been granted subject to submitting a defence within 14 days

You didn't mention costs on the original form so you've now submitted a second N244 and paid £255 to recover £150 costs for preparation that can't normally be recovered

If so, you've probably thrown away £255

If CEL discontinues the claim after receiving your defence, you have a good chance of recovering the fee for the first N244
You can at the same time ask for the £150 because its behaviour was unreasonable

Cannot see any court ordering CEL to pay two fees

This post has been edited by Redivi: Thu, 2 May 2019 - 08:35
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southpaw82
post Thu, 2 May 2019 - 10:18
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I too am a bit confused - if you forgot to ask about costs in your application then making another application to ask for them is (a) likely to fail and (b) is unlikely to get the costs of that application back.


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WR2019
post Thu, 20 Jun 2019 - 14:32
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Hi guys,

I had a small claims track case with a very well known private parking company for a PCN. They failed to defend themselves and missed several key deadlines made to them buy the judge. I completed an n244 asking for the case to be struck out for the previously mentioned reasons. The judge agreed and did so. I then submitted another n244 form to reclaim reasonable costs in defending this matter against a claimant that showed a complete disregard for the claim and the court process. Total costs for legal advice, my time, self research etc. was circa £150.

I now have a hearing with the claimant for these costs.

Are hearings for costs normal?
If the claimant doesn't turn up to this cost hearing, will the judge automatically award such cost to me?
If the claimant does turn up to the cost hearing and the judge does not aware me any costs, can the claimant claim any money for the cost hearing (despite the claim being struck out)?

I just need to see if now the case is struck out, I would be at financial risk in pursuing such cost hearing in the even that the costs don't go in my favour.

Really appreciate your input people and hope I have listed this topic on the correct place/section.
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Lynnzer
post Fri, 21 Jun 2019 - 17:44
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QUOTE (WR2019 @ Thu, 20 Jun 2019 - 15:32) *
Hi guys,

I had a small claims track case with a very well known private parking company for a PCN. They failed to defend themselves and missed several key deadlines made to them buy the judge. I completed an n244 asking for the case to be struck out for the previously mentioned reasons. The judge agreed and did so. I then submitted another n244 form to reclaim reasonable costs in defending this matter against a claimant that showed a complete disregard for the claim and the court process. Total costs for legal advice, my time, self research etc. was circa £150.

I now have a hearing with the claimant for these costs.

Are hearings for costs normal?
If the claimant doesn't turn up to this cost hearing, will the judge automatically award such cost to me?
If the claimant does turn up to the cost hearing and the judge does not aware me any costs, can the claimant claim any money for the cost hearing (despite the claim being struck out)?

I just need to see if now the case is struck out, I would be at financial risk in pursuing such cost hearing in the even that the costs don't go in my favour.

Really appreciate your input people and hope I have listed this topic on the correct place/section.


You REALLY need to read my own post.
Circumstances were different for the costs I was awarded from another case but £3506.24 was very nice.
You need to put a really good set of reasons together as to why a claim for damages should be added, ie vexatious and unreasonable conduct, all the stress, potential of ccj destroying your credit and other things. Fill it with emotive stuff like the wife was distraught and it caused marital strife etc.

Good luck. AND hey, they won't show up so this should be a walk in the park as long as you get a decent judge and lay things out properly.

This post has been edited by Lynnzer: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 - 17:45


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WR2019
post Mon, 24 Jun 2019 - 19:55
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Thanks. Looks very interesting and good to see you're active in the fight against PCN's.

I'm just a tad unsure here as the case has already been struck out. We now have a hearing for my costs but I am still a defendant? Also can I loose and be penalised for the the judge not agreeing with part or any of my costs sort?

My understanding is that in a hearing situation the loosing party is liable for costs but the original case has been struck out.

All very confusing to me!!
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southpaw82
post Mon, 24 Jun 2019 - 20:06
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QUOTE (WR2019 @ Thu, 20 Jun 2019 - 15:32) *
Are hearings for costs normal?


Yes, both parties have a right to be heard.

QUOTE
If the claimant doesn't turn up to this cost hearing, will the judge automatically award such cost to me?


Not automatically no but it doesn’t help the claimant.

QUOTE
If the claimant does turn up to the cost hearing and the judge does not aware me any costs, can the claimant claim any money for the cost hearing (despite the claim being struck out)?


Yes. Whether they’d get it is another matter.




QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Fri, 21 Jun 2019 - 18:44) *
You REALLY need to read my own post.
Circumstances were different for the costs I was awarded from another case but £3506.24 was very nice.
You need to put a really good set of reasons together as to why a claim for damages should be added, ie vexatious and unreasonable conduct, all the stress, potential of ccj destroying your credit and other things. Fill it with emotive stuff like the wife was distraught and it caused marital strife etc.

I don’t see how there can be a claim for damages without the defendant (as was) starting one. The court has no jurisdiction to make such an award in the circumstances. Do you mean costs for unreasonable behaviour?


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Lynnzer
post Mon, 24 Jun 2019 - 20:34
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Mon, 24 Jun 2019 - 21:06) *
QUOTE (WR2019 @ Thu, 20 Jun 2019 - 15:32) *
Are hearings for costs normal?


Yes, both parties have a right to be heard.

QUOTE
If the claimant doesn't turn up to this cost hearing, will the judge automatically award such cost to me?


Not automatically no but it doesn’t help the claimant.

QUOTE
If the claimant does turn up to the cost hearing and the judge does not aware me any costs, can the claimant claim any money for the cost hearing (despite the claim being struck out)?


Yes. Whether they’d get it is another matter.




QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Fri, 21 Jun 2019 - 18:44) *
You REALLY need to read my own post.
Circumstances were different for the costs I was awarded from another case but £3506.24 was very nice.
You need to put a really good set of reasons together as to why a claim for damages should be added, ie vexatious and unreasonable conduct, all the stress, potential of ccj destroying your credit and other things. Fill it with emotive stuff like the wife was distraught and it caused marital strife etc.

I don’t see how there can be a claim for damages without the defendant (as was) starting one. The court has no jurisdiction to make such an award in the circumstances. Do you mean costs for unreasonable behaviour?

Exactly that.

Also the case had already been struck out for failure to pay court fees, then an application for reinstatement was made even though my own application for the case to be struck out hadn't been heard. Story is best shown on my bite back website.

This post has been edited by Lynnzer: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 - 20:39
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