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Dagenham & Barking Council - Disabled Parking Bay PCN
Bobby243
post Fri, 29 Nov 2019 - 17:19
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Hi all,

I received a PCN for parking in a disabled bay on 24/11/2019.

The details:

I recently moved to Dagenham in late September and there happens to be a disabled parking bay directly outside my house (no one else is closer - just to give you an idea of how close it is). Now, my wife actually has a disabled blue badge so it is quite convenient that the disabled parking bay is just outside as it allows us to park and allows my wife to walk the minimal distance to the house.

In Dagenham, they advise you do not need a resident parking permit if you have a blue badge, which we do. As my wife is a holder, we have been using the blue badge to park outside our home since we moved with no issues.

On 24/11/2019, I received a PCN for parking in the bay. Unfortunately, the blue badge had fallen (not sure how) on the side of the passenger chair so understandably the ticket officer could not see the badge and issues a ticket.

I challenged the ticket immediately. All I was told was that I would receive a letter in the post regarding the outcome of my challenge - there was no email to notify my challenge had been received but I assumed it was.

In my challenge I simply stated the above and also provided evidence that my wife has a blue badge along with proof of address to show we literally live next to the parking bay.

Two weeks later (04/11/19), I contacted the council via an online form saying I haven't heard anything and the next day was told that they are dealing with it and will hear back via post or email, so I left it at that.

Yesterday (28/11/10), I contacted the council again via the online form as I had not received any letter. I received an email today saying a letter was sent on 06/11/19 and that my challenge has been rejected and I have until today to pay the reduced rate.

Now, I have received no letter at my current address (this was provided in the challenge) nor my old address (not sure why it would go here).

What are my options? Do I have a case? I still park in the disabled bay and have had no issues.

Thanks for any help.
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post Fri, 29 Nov 2019 - 17:19
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stamfordman
post Fri, 29 Nov 2019 - 17:31
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Where is the car registered (ie address on the V5C document).

They should really have cancelled this - we don't have their policy though.

Have you got your challenge?

Are you sure the rejection didn't go by email and have you checked your junk/spam folder?

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 - 17:35
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Bobby243
post Fri, 29 Nov 2019 - 17:45
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The car is registered at my old address still (in the process of changing). I have checked my old address (family home) and I have no letter there either.

I have checked my emails thoroughly and have no correspondence.

Unfortunately I do not have the challenge, I submitted it online and didn't save it (thought I might get an email with my challenge). But I simply stated what I have stated here.
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stamfordman
post Fri, 29 Nov 2019 - 17:48
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If the letter has gone astray then I wouldn't worry but wait for the notice to owner (this must be posted to the V5C address). You can make reps against this with our help and I would at least expect them to reoffer the discount as you will tell them no rejection to the challenge was received.

Post the PCN and the council's pics.

Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like.
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Bobby243
post Fri, 29 Nov 2019 - 18:19
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Here are the images:

https://ibb.co/gFNDC3Q
https://ibb.co/rGfkdpt
https://ibb.co/bsHmcTS
https://ibb.co/sWY0776
https://ibb.co/pJq3MgC
https://ibb.co/9tGjmCb
https://ibb.co/WPwCDmX
https://ibb.co/WBB9XYb

Thanks for the help so far - please let me know if the pics should be in a different format (embedded) or anything else
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stamfordman
post Fri, 29 Nov 2019 - 18:26
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What's that on the dash behind the PCN envelope?

CEO doesn't seem to have looked hard for BB. Was it visible on seat? Sadly some councils stick to a hard line about no display but we would expect discretion for a first issue with a BB holder.

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Bobby243
post Fri, 29 Nov 2019 - 18:31
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That's just an empty holder for a previous parking permit.

The blue badge is in a folding leather case and it was just on the side of the seat
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cp8759
post Fri, 29 Nov 2019 - 22:37
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I would expect the council to cancel the PCN if proof of a valid BB is produced.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Bobby243
post Sat, 30 Nov 2019 - 00:22
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Honestly, I have done this. I even provided proof of address for me and my wife to show that we live right by the disabled parking bay and that my wife does hold a blue badge. They have rejected my challenge, so I'm unsure what to do.
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cp8759
post Sat, 30 Nov 2019 - 00:25
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Show us what you sent and the council's rejection. The council will reconsider the case at the Notice to Owner stage.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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stamfordman
post Sat, 30 Nov 2019 - 10:29
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 30 Nov 2019 - 00:25) *
Show us what you sent and the council's rejection. The council will reconsider the case at the Notice to Owner stage.


The OP has said he's not got the challenge and the rejection looks to have gone astray. I have advised to wait for the NTO, which I'm sure you'll agree with.

I think you've asked Barking for its policy doc?
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hcandersen
post Sat, 30 Nov 2019 - 10:35
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OP, let's distill this pl.

The contravention is clear* as you acknowledge. So let's leave this for the moment.

As regards what does count, we know little other than that you say you challenged by email 'I challenged the ticket immediately. All I was told was that I would receive a letter in the post regarding the outcome of my challenge - there was no email to notify my challenge had been received but I assumed it was.'

Told? You spoke to someone? Or that the website informed you?

We can only presume that you included your name and address in the challenge, in which case their reply has gone astray. It happens.

As per stamfordman, the next notice is the NTO. This would be sent to the keeper's registered address. And as for The car is registered at my old address still (in the process of changing) ..bah, humbug. You can change online in less time than it takes to read this post. 'In the process of..' is normally a euphemism for 'haven't got round to it'. The odd thing is that you should not change now, this simply confuses matters. Wait until after this is over.

Phone the council every 4/5 days to see when the NTO has been sent.

*I don't think there's a contravention biggrin.gif There's a b****y big and bright yellow line next to the bay. This is IMPOSSIBLE. You cannot have a 24/7 parking place in the same length of street as a waiting restriction. So, if they want to be b****y-minded and not cancel on production of the BB, then bring on adjudication.

PS and you can't park on the pavement either.

What a dog's breakfast of so-called restrictions.
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DancingDad
post Sat, 30 Nov 2019 - 10:40
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As v5c still has old address, the NTO may go there.
Make sure you have warned new people at that address and arrange that you can get it.
And sort out updating with DVLA

But also, write to council now
Dear Sirs
Ref PCN ?????
Your rejection letter dated ????
The rejection letter seems to have gone astray, would you send or email a new copy please.
Would you also note and amend records to show that my correct address is...….
I enclose a recent utility bill/council tax bill (whatever) to verify.
All further communication must be to this address including further enforcement notices such as the Notice to Owner.
DVLA are currently updating the registered keeper details as I have moved from the address on record.
As such, using the RK address from DVLA records may find notices going astray.
Many thanks for your cooperation in this.
Hugs and Kisses
Name
Address
Email address.

If they ignore, you win (eventually) and protect yourself should notices go to old address.
If they accept, at least you should get the notices.

What I cannot guarantee is a win on what we have so far.
Unless we can get hold of their parking policy and see if they have ignored, cancellation is at their discretion only.

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hcandersen
post Sat, 30 Nov 2019 - 11:08
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Which introduces another layer of complexity because the OP has not yet initiated the change of address, or if they have they have not said so, despite this address being out-of-date by at least 2 months. And even if DVLA change, this might not be backdated to before the date of the contravention, so where would the NTO be sent then? The new address, because that's what the OP has told the council, or the old address which was the address on the date of the contravention?

I can understand the intentions behind DD's suggestion, but I'm not certain it would simplify and fear further procedural chaos. Let's not play this game, the facts of the case do not warrant such an approach IMO.

OP, it is a criminal offence to not maintain correct keeper info with DVLA.
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stamfordman
post Sat, 30 Nov 2019 - 11:18
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The car is registered at a family home so no pressing problem here but must of course be changed if there is a permanent move. I agree with HCA - best not to get into address issues with this one.


OP - have you checked the V5C to see if the family address is correct in all details.

We are missing Barking's policy - all we have is the standard London Councils code of practice from them.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sat, 30 Nov 2019 - 11:27
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Bobby243
post Sat, 30 Nov 2019 - 11:49
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Everyone, thanks for pointing out the seriousness of updating the address.

I have received a PCN before in the post (at my old address) as opposed to on my windshield, so there should be no issues there.

I am actively checking the old address and have people there to inform me of any mail for me.
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DancingDad
post Sat, 30 Nov 2019 - 11:50
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If the vehicle is still registered at an address where the RK can reasonably be expected to get mail, like the family home, there is no criminal element to not updating.
There is however some merit in giving the council chance to feck up.
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stamfordman
post Sat, 30 Nov 2019 - 12:11
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OK have found Barking's discretion and cancellation policies and it should be a slam dunk for the OP:

In cases where the vehicle was being used by a disabled badge holder, but their blue badge had either not been displayed or had not been properly displayed, if the badge is later produced, provided that it is confirmed as being valid and, had it been properly displayed at the time of the alleged contravention, the PCN would not have been issued.

https://modgov.lbbd.gov.uk/internet/documen...nt%20Policy.pdf

And:

MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES

MC13: Where the motorist is a Blue Badge holder/transporting a Blue Badge holder and they did not have their Blue Badge and/or clock on display or could not be read or had expired

If it can be established that this is the motorist’s first contravention of this type and they can provide evidence that they are a Blue badge holder or were transporting a Blue Badge holder.
If the motorist has previously had a PCN cancelled for the same contravention and has been warned to display a valid badge/time clock, correctly in the future
If the motorist was parked on a waiting restriction beyond the 3-hour time limit permitted by the Blue Badge Scheme, or on another restriction for which the Blue Badge does not provide an exemption.


https://modgov.lbbd.gov.uk/internet/documen...on%20Policy.pdf

However these are annexes to a long doc that seems to be updated. But it is unlikely that it will have changed.

https://modgov.lbbd.gov.uk/internet/documen...nt%20Policy.pdf

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Bobby243
post Sat, 30 Nov 2019 - 12:17
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sat, 30 Nov 2019 - 10:35) *
Told? You spoke to someone? Or that the website informed you? .


After submitting the form, the website told me. I actually took a screenshot of this - it gives me a reference number for the case and says "you will receive a correspondence by post or mail within 10 working days".

Just to add, in both instances where I contacted them via their online form, both times I gave my current address, email, and phone number. In these instances, I have emails of my web form application along with their replies.

Something else I've noticed now that i have looked at the screenshot. I received the PCN on 24/10/19 and made my challenge on that day also. Now from my correspondence with them, they said they sent out a rejection letter on 06/11/19 which is in fact the 10th business day. So if they actually sent it then, there's no way I would have received it within 10 business days as stated (unless there are some holidays I am missing). Not sure if this has any grounds but worth mentioning.

This post has been edited by Bobby243: Sat, 30 Nov 2019 - 12:18
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stamfordman
post Sat, 30 Nov 2019 - 12:18
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There is no set time to respond to informal challenges and their turnaround time often slips. Sounds like they have done well given the volume of PCNs they deal with.

Anyway, see my post about policy.
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