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UKPC Charge, In private bay at my rented flat
boro12856
post Tue, 27 Aug 2013 - 10:43
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Hi all, spent a while reading various threads but thought I had best ask for my own personal advice.

Me and my partner rent a flat which has a gated entrance and you have your own space (corresponding to flat number) ours is in the underground section. We had a parking permit which has the number of the space on it to display on a daily basis.

Recently the gates to the carpark have been 'broken' and one side is constantly left open, which now has resulted in three UKPC notices in the space of two weeks.

We currently only have her car at the flat and I very rarely use the car, both occasions I have used it and returned to our parking bay I have once forgotten to put the parking permit on the dashboard, returning to the car next morning to see we had a ticket given to us around 4am for not displaying permit. And the second one for the same reason this time however I am 100% certain the permit was placed on the dashboard, however it wasn't there the next morning and another ticket was given (again around 4am, these idiots love a nightshift)

The third notice we had received was when we had friends staying for a weekend, we have a visitor permit too, which we were not given any advice about how long this could be used for by our landlord. All we were told is that if using a visitor permit please park in the disabled bays. Now this permit was used constantly for around 2 weeks when we first moved in as we had two cars then, and no problems. I have also noticed other cars at the flats always in the disabled spots and not disabled drivers.

But one weekend we gave our permit to friends to park downstairs and my girlfriend parked her car in the visitors bay, on the second night she received another charge notice this time saying that she had over stayed her welcome in the visitors bay.

Now I am just looking for what to do with these pieces of paper I have been given, as there is NO WAY I will be paying them a penny! We need to use an electric fob to gain access to the carpark, and our parking spot corresponds with our flat number. So if they are coming in EVERY NIGHT they must see the car in the same bay using the permit, yet the ONE occasions I genuinely know I forgot to display the permit a ticket is slapped straight on. It is funny however how the influx of tickets corresponds with the gated entrance been broken.

Thanks for any help.

Regards
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post Tue, 27 Aug 2013 - 10:43
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SchoolRunMum
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 22:19
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QUOTE
There are two Lessee’s covenants which apply to “Parking” (clause 9 on page 25 of the lease) and the “Parking Space” (clause 19 on pages 28 and 29 of the lease). Neither of these covenants require the Lessee (or the Lessee’s tenants) to display a parking permit when using the parking space or to pay a parking charge in the event of not displaying a parking permit.


Hmmm...but...the tickets in this claim are not for non-display of permit.

Worse, the above template relies upon the Lease in defence, which this OP should not, given the facts of this case and what the Lease actually says.

I say the OP should steer right away from relying on this Lease that they are strangers to, and which they had previously never seen before, because it sets out in simple terms, the contravention they are accused of. Hence why I wrote my reply as I did, which tries to answer and reflect the points made by SCS, rather than talking over them with a template that's not suitable.

You also say this in that template:

QUOTE
the Parking Space clause (clause 8 on page 26 of the lease). That clause actually confers on the Lessee, my landlord, “The right (to the exclusion of all others) to use the car parking space(s) edged green on the Plans or any other parking space{s) (if any) allocated by the Lessor from time to time within the Development for the purpose of parking one fully taxed and licensed private motor car or motor cycle only”. Clearly, the words “to the exclusion of all others” means that your client has no right to use the parking space for the purpose of parking which, in turn, results in your client having no consideration to offer in return for a parking charge.


...but that is not the space this claim relates to, and the OP has no rights to it, to the exclusion of all others.

Your quotes are as misconceived as SCS Law's.
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nosferatu1001
post Sat, 10 Nov 2018 - 09:52
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It might have addressed SCS points, but unlike SRM doesn't deal with the out of bay nature of this case

Can you elaborate on why not, and leave the attempt to smear our of this thread? Your posturing helps no one.
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boro12856
post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 09:18
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Well this thread escalated over the weekend. Thanks for the replies everyone, I have been away for the weekend so just going to settle down and read through what has been posted. Regarding the post above, I have got a copy of the tenancy agreement I just need to edit out the sensitive info from this. I have a copy of the visitors permit still in my possession so I will take a photo of that, and yes I have all the evidence provided including photos of the signs which I will dig out and post too.

I will be back later today. Thanks

EDIT - I have to pop out for the morning but I have uploaded the AST now at the following link http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_...358173255962296

also I thought it was a visitor pass we still had in the drawer but it was a resident one, the pass itself didn't appear legit, it was a photo copy, laminated with address written over the laminate hence why no longer legible. http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_...368943278434341

Also I have just quickly scanned the evidence bundle and regarding the photos, on one of the alleged contraventions, the photo of the sign was obviously not taken at the same time (as its day/night) and also does not have a timestamp on the sign photo. And on the others the writing on the sign is not readable. I will get round to editing and uploading of this when I am back this afternoon. Thanks again.

This post has been edited by boro12856: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 10:00
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SchoolRunMum
post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 20:40
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QUOTE (boro12856 @ Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 10:18) *
Also I have just quickly scanned the evidence bundle and regarding the photos, on one of the alleged contraventions, the photo of the sign was obviously not taken at the same time (as its day/night) and also does not have a timestamp on the sign photo. And on the others the writing on the sign is not readable.


Good, those are the sort of things that will win you the case at trial.

Your AST doesn't mention parking, so can you answer the Qs I asked you in my last post?

I repeat my earlier advice and the reply I wrote for you to send, and the advice to get a SAR so you can see ALL photos taken/all letters sent, to see their entire hand in advance.

I also take this opportunity to warn you NOT to reply to any private message you might get from a poster...just keep it all here and listen to the consensus of opinion, not the aggressor.

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 21:28
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boro12856
post Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 17:38
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Sun, 11 Nov 2018 - 21:48) *
@ boro12856, what does your Assured Shorthold Tenancy say, and what did the advert for the flat say about parking rights?


As you have seen nothing, I do have another agreement type thing we were given when we signed for the flat, I am sure I still have that so I will try and dig it out tomorrow and have a read through, again not sure it mentions parking however.

QUOTE
What did the permit say?

Permit was similar to the one I posted up yesterday apart from saying resident it said VISITOR and could only be used when using the visitor parking spaces

QUOTE
What do the signs look like?

Signs in the car park? Like the sign they posted in the evidence bundle, however we did not take much notice of them. Theres a couple of photos that show the sign and the vehicle in the same picture. One was posted quite low on the back of a bin shed. The other was on a lampost but not visible from the visitor bay as it was central. Say you had 20 parking spaces, the two on the far left were visitor, the two far right visitor and the rest in between residencial, the sign was in the very centre of the row. So unless you walked down you never saw the sign.

QUOTE
Do they have photos of every event, showing the car and the sign, with readable terms x 5 times?

From the evidence bundle, yes they have photos of every event with timestamps. However as previously mentioned, one does NOT have a timestamped photo of the sign (and different time of day), and all the others the photos of the sign no writing is legible at all. Also they mockup of the sign they have included in the evidence bundle too, and on the sign is says a charge of £90 and NOT £150 as they are claiming.

It has been my partners birthday today so not been able to get much reading done, shes out at the minute with friends so going to read the replies now and get ready to send a reply to SCS tomorrow morning.

This post has been edited by boro12856: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 17:50
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SchoolRunMum
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 20:11
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QUOTE
Theres a couple of photos that show the sign and the vehicle in the same picture. One was posted quite low on the back of a bin shed. The other was on a lampost but not visible from the visitor bay as it was central. Say you had 20 parking spaces, the two on the far left were visitor, the two far right visitor and the rest in between residencial, the sign was in the very centre of the row. So unless you walked down you never saw the sign.
OK, so your defence - in due course - will need to go in strong about the signage (or lack of) and certainly not rely on the only thing that states there is a 24/48 hr rule (the lease that isn't yours and which you have never seen). Can't say it clearly enough, do NOT rely on that lease.

So sorry about the elephant in the room taking your thread off on a tangent. It's not normal for this forum.
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