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Parking charge for parking in free car park when shops closed
endorfin
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 09:19
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Posting this one on behalf of a friend.

He briefly parked in the car park of Home Bargains for 10 mins at 7.12am and received a PCN. It seems parking isn't permitted out of the shop's opening hours.

I've attached copies of the PCN and photos of signage.

Advice on how to proceed.

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post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 09:19
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Dave65
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 09:26
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"No Parking outside shop hours" should be forbidding signage offering no contract to park, trespass only then.

Regulars will comment.
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Jlc
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 09:33
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It must have been literally a few seconds over 10 minutes which is the likely grace period.

The response should be that the driver could not accept any contract (it seems one wasn’t on offer anyway) and left...

They need time to enter, park, read the signs, see if the shop was open (as opening times not on the signage) and then leave.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 09:38
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BB makes zero difference.

Despite the rotten photo's I can see the time spent was over the 10 minutes grace, so no argument can be had there.

I can't see the argument can be made for commercial justification but that won't wash at POPLA.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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Jlc
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 09:44
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 10:38) *
BB makes zero difference.

...other than reduced mobility may require more time to see if the store is open etc.

If in a BB bay was signage visible from it?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Sheffield Dave
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 10:58
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The length of stay appears to be 10 mins and 7 seconds. 10 mins is normally the grace period needed to read the signs and exit. Coupled with disability and the further need to discover that the store isn't open, I think a good case could be made. heck, PE might even cancel!
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Jlc
post Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 11:02
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QUOTE (Sheffield Dave @ Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 11:58) *
heck, PE might even cancel!

Steady now.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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endorfin
post Sat, 12 Oct 2019 - 02:42
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So what's the advisable course of action on this?

Ignore?

Appeal?
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endorfin
post Mon, 14 Oct 2019 - 13:03
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Time is running out on for the discount period, any advise how to respond. Can I refuse to acknowledge who the driver was.
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Jlc
post Mon, 14 Oct 2019 - 13:13
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QUOTE (endorfin @ Mon, 14 Oct 2019 - 14:03) *
Time is running out on for the discount period, any advise how to respond. Can I refuse to acknowledge who the driver was.

Appeal, covered above.

Of course you can refuse to name the driver - but they can pursue the keeper.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 14 Oct 2019 - 13:17
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Of course you can refuse to name the driver.

No-one is saying you have to pay, the arguments are over what reasons may or may not stand.

Forbidding signage and no commercial justification for the penalty are two obvious ones.

Visibility of signage at night with no illumination is another.

Grace period can be used as the car was there only a handful of seconds over the 10 minutes, not enough to drive to and read a sign before having ten minutes to make up their mind. Correctly worded POPLA may just accept that but usually even 1 second over 10m they won't but its not something PE would probably like to argue in court.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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