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Ealing Council - 18 months to respond to letter and now demanding £165 in 14 days
MarkBerg
post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 18:47
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I was wondering if someone could advise.

Back on the 30th September 2016 I paid for a parking permit. Ealing council sent an email saying application was successful and we would receive a receipt or an email if payment wasn't successful.

On the 8th October 2016 and on the 10th October 2016. I received 2 parking tickets. I called up on the Monday 10th and was advised that their system was down and so payment was not taken. It was their fault.

I paid for the permit at that point. I complained and basically said this isn't my fault but they insisted that I would have to go through the process and I just got standard letters back not addressing the fact that the fault was with them because their system was down. Finally in December or early January I wrote one final time asking for a non standard letter and for someone to look into this. I heard nothing back from them.

Last week I got two letters regarding the two tickets essentially saying I have 14 days to pay £165. And that I will have to wait till the Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton County Court issues an order for recovery.

Can someone offer some advise on what I should do.

Also are they allowed to have a delay of 16-17 months between correspondence?

I can't remember enough of the information regarding order and timeline to know exactly what I did and didn't do and can't find copies of the letters on my computer.

thank you in advance.

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post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 18:47
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stamfordman
post Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 15:02
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It looks like you may be OK then but as you can see the process is proceeding for each PCN separately but as you have referenced both in that note you can truthfully say you didn't get a reply to both, which is the key to rebutting the order for recovery. Have you had one or two orders for recovery?
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hcandersen
post Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 16:35
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NTOs don't have unique references, it's the PCN in each case that counts, and it's mentioned.

Do not get hung up about how you posted, we do not recommend recorded delivery anyway, just first-class with free of charge proof of posting from the post office.

IMO, you are entitled to rely on what you've posted and your recollection and submit your witness statement.

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Incandescent
post Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 18:42
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 17:35) *
NTOs don't have unique references, it's the PCN in each case that counts, and it's mentioned.

Do not get hung up about how you posted, we do not recommend recorded delivery anyway, just first-class with free of charge proof of posting from the post office.

IMO, you are entitled to rely on what you've posted and your recollection and submit your witness statement.

+1
The council have behaved disgracefully in this affair, and with the excessive delay how many of us here can put oor figure on things that occurred months ago. So if it were me, I'd state on the Witness Statement that reps were submitted to the NtO, but no response was received.
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rosturra
post Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 20:06
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QUOTE (MarkBerg @ Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 14:38) *
The first response I don't have as I remember doing it on the website. So the date for that is unknown but they obviously received that.


If I understand this correctly - you appealed informally using the council online form.

I would check your emails; as when I appealed a PCN via council website I had a email sent to me as confirmation of receipt, including the text of my rep.

"We have received the details of your parking ticket challenge and will get back to you in writing as soon as possible. If we accept your reasons, we will cancel the ticket. If we don't, you can... [etc]"




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stamfordman
post Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 20:16
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QUOTE (rosturra @ Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 21:06) *
QUOTE (MarkBerg @ Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 14:38) *
The first response I don't have as I remember doing it on the website. So the date for that is unknown but they obviously received that.


If I understand this correctly - you appealed informally using the council online form.

I would check your emails; as when I appealed a PCN via council website I had a email sent to me as confirmation of receipt, including the text of my rep.

"We have received the details of your parking ticket challenge and will get back to you in writing as soon as possible. If we accept your reasons, we will cancel the ticket. If we don't, you can... [etc]"


This isn't the issue - the critical thing is replying after the issue of the NTOs.
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MarkBerg
post Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 10:34
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 16:02) *
It looks like you may be OK then but as you can see the process is proceeding for each PCN separately but as you have referenced both in that note you can truthfully say you didn't get a reply to both, which is the key to rebutting the order for recovery. Have you had one or two orders for recovery?



I received two charge certificates and I wrote one letter back and I've had two orders for recovery.
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MarkBerg
post Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 10:48
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Hi,

When I fill in the witness statement should I attach a letter detailing the dates of correspondence as I remember them.

Also they have sent the OfR only 9 days after the last letter were they said they would give me 14 days to pay. Is that worth mentioning or is that irrelevant?
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Incandescent
post Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 12:45
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QUOTE (MarkBerg @ Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 11:48) *
Hi,

When I fill in the witness statement should I attach a letter detailing the dates of correspondence as I remember them.

Also they have sent the OfR only 9 days after the last letter were they said they would give me 14 days to pay. Is that worth mentioning or is that irrelevant?

Irrelevant to the WS, but not to any appeal.
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MarkBerg
post Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 13:01
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Thank You.

Would you advise just filling in the witness statement without an accompanying letter then?
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cp8759
post Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 14:36
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QUOTE (MarkBerg @ Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 14:01) *
Thank You.

Would you advise just filling in the witness statement without an accompanying letter then?

The witness statement is dealt with by the court staff in Northampton, they have nothing to do with appeals so there's no point in writing them a letter. The appeal will ultimately be dealt with by the tribunal.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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hcandersen
post Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 15:33
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+1

OP, the WS doesn't allow or provide for you to argue the case or JUSTIFY your statement of truth, that you've signed to this effect is all that is needed.

Do not feel tempted now or ever (without our guidance) to step outside procedure.

Tick one box per WS ( made reps but did not receive a response from the authority..), sign and send to the address given i.e. Traffic Enforcement Centre.

This is an automatic process and your OfRs and CCs will be revoked/cancelled (provided you submit the WS in time) and then the ball's in the authority's court.
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MarkBerg
post Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 17:24
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Thanks.

Don't worry I have literally zero temptation to go off piste or without guidance at this point!
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MarkBerg
post Fri, 25 May 2018 - 14:25
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Hi All,

I filled in the witness statement and got two letters today saying that that they would not contest my case and they have cancelled both the PCN's.

Thanks for all the help.

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stamfordman
post Fri, 25 May 2018 - 15:03
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Excellent news. They saw sense.
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hcandersen
post Fri, 25 May 2018 - 15:18
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Well done.

Can you post Ealing's letters, it would be interesting to see how they apologised.
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Incandescent
post Fri, 25 May 2018 - 20:49
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 25 May 2018 - 16:18) *
Well done.

Can you post Ealing's letters, it would be interesting to see how they apologised.

I would be very surprised if there were even a hint of an apology.
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MarkBerg
post Mon, 28 May 2018 - 13:39
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Just a hint of an apology biggrin.gif They apologised for any inconvenience caused!


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hcandersen
post Mon, 28 May 2018 - 14:11
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They almost prostrated themselves begging forgiveness..

..well almost biggrin.gif

On the other hand, it could be prostate and their apology so much b******s.

You pays your money....!

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Mon, 28 May 2018 - 15:43
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Mad Mick V
post Mon, 28 May 2018 - 17:00
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OP--- well done for sticking with it.

On a serious note, a lot of these Statutory Declaration\Witness Statement cases are being lost at ETA at present because the "appellant" has not provided evidence to support their witness statement/declaration.

Given that some of the contraventions were over a year ago it seems that those Councils either need a kick up the a*se or they are coming it in the hope that the recipient has lost copies of the "missing" document.

I can't work out from an appellant's perspective if the system is being abused--- e.g. it gives them more time to budget AND it appears, when they cannot support their witness statement/declaration, that they are dunned the 100% penalty not the 150% one.

Is this a "scam" which the legislation and the set procedures allow?

Mick
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