PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

warwick county council, loading fine
markadams
post Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 14:08
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 69
Joined: 13 Jul 2011
Member No.: 48,200



Hi i recieved a fine for parking in double yellows whilst unloading the other week, the loading bays on the same road were all full of cars as were the double yellows and i took photos of these and sent in a complaint to say it was unfair and they wrote back asking for proof of what i was doing at the time with an option to still pay at £35, i sent this back to them but no reply so i called and they said they hadnt had anything so they said dont worry just send some proof in, so i sent a letter stating what i was doing and they sent one back, its now £70 !! as the discount period has expiredand i need to supply documentary evidence, a delivery note or invoice showing the agreed time date and location !! I was dropping off a vehicle and some car parts from my van to a gentleman as he was not at home and asked it to be dropped near to the location.
My gripe is of course the ignorance of all the other illegally parked and ignored vehicles but how the devil can i produce an invoice for dates and times im not amazon or dpd and loading is allowed by the public.
It does say now either pay the £70 or await the issue of a notice to owner to the registerd keeper which will advise of the formal appeal procedure.

What should i do
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
3 Pages V   1 2 3 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 14:08
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
DancingDad
post Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 14:44
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 25,726
Joined: 28 Jun 2010
From: Area 51
Member No.: 38,559



When a council asks for proof of loading, they are minded to cancel the PCN but want something they can file so they can tick the box that says evidence received.
Can be delivery note, invoice, photos, tx messages, ebay receipt, note from the person you were giving the parts to, emails showing delivery details... list is endless.
You can still challenge the NTO when it arrived and should get it cancelled but get some evidence or likely to be knocked back again.

If you post the PCN and letters (all of them) we may be able to suggest something better
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
markadams
post Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 15:09
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 69
Joined: 13 Jul 2011
Member No.: 48,200



Gret advice thankyou ive uploaded files onto my pc and they are too big so dont know how to resize quickly to put them up here,.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
John U.K.
post Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 15:42
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,308
Joined: 9 May 2014
Member No.: 70,515



QUOTE (markadams @ Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 15:09) *
Gret advice thankyou ive uploaded files onto my pc and they are too big so dont know how to resize quickly to put them up here,.


Try this:

Do not attach docs/photos, but use this method:

Photo or scan. see http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36858&st=0
for how to do it. I use Tinypic for stage 2 with no problems. Thera are other sites, such as Flickr (where the BBcodes are concealed behind the curly arrow (click on it) for sharing), https://imgbb.com/ (highly recommended by Stamfordman) and imgur, which enable you to paste the BBcodes into your post here.
STAGE 1 takes care of resizing. If you use Tinypic for Stage 2, on the left each image in Tinypic is a list of links. Highlight and copy the entire link 'for forums' from the list for each image - beginning with IMG and ending /IMG (include all the square brackets [ ] ), and paste each link into your post. Each copied and pasted link will embed a thumbnail link in your post.

Using the attachment method is not advised as it means quickly running out of attachment space.

Redact/obscure name, address, PCN number and reg.mark.
LEAVE IN all dates/times; precise location, Contravention code and description.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 17:35
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (markadams @ Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 15:09) *
Gret advice thankyou ive uploaded files onto my pc and they are too big so dont know how to resize quickly to put them up here,.

Just upload to imgur.com and post a link


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
markadams
post Mon, 28 Jan 2019 - 08:27
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 69
Joined: 13 Jul 2011
Member No.: 48,200



x


This post has been edited by markadams: Mon, 28 Jan 2019 - 08:28
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
markadams
post Mon, 28 Jan 2019 - 09:04
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 69
Joined: 13 Jul 2011
Member No.: 48,200



https://imgur.com/a/tK2b8YS


https://imgur.com/a/jyM9AOu


https://imgur.com/a/CovTssm
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Mon, 28 Jan 2019 - 12:11
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



Firstly upload the back of the PCN, errors in the small print legal text can make them invalid.

Secondly, can you explain the loading element? You say you were dropping off a vehicle and some parts, so were you towing said vehicle? Also, do you have an invoice, delivery note or whatever else?


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
markadams
post Wed, 30 Jan 2019 - 09:37
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 69
Joined: 13 Jul 2011
Member No.: 48,200



https://imgur.com/a/dxpf38i

The car was being delivered to gents house, he was not there, he asked for it to be dropped into town which we did along with the parts in the van. The other vehicle is not relevant here as was parked legally. I can soon make an invoice, there wasnt one at the time but no harm in me supplying one
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hcandersen
post Wed, 30 Jan 2019 - 09:50
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 35,063
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
From: Woking
Member No.: 21,551



Where are the council's photos?

'We were unloading..', yet the CEO saw no evidence of this, presumably just a locked vehicle on DYL hence the absolutely correctly issued PCN, you cannot have or should not have any gripes on this point if you were parked on DYL with no-one in attendance at the vehicle and no evidence of unloading at the vehicle, CEO's are not clairvoyant.

But just because the PCN was issued correctly on the basis of the evidence available to the CEO at the time does not mean that an exemption does not apply because unloading can take place away from the vehicle. So, no moans about the PCN. It's now down to you to provide sufficient proof to the authority that you were entitled to the exemption.

But so far you haven't.

But that's no problem. The proof with informal reps would be the same as now. All we need to do is to target your effort correctly, it's not a blame game and has nothing to do with other cars. It's you, and you only.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 - 11:51
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
markadams
post Wed, 30 Jan 2019 - 10:00
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 69
Joined: 13 Jul 2011
Member No.: 48,200



QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 30 Jan 2019 - 09:50) *
Where are the council's photos?

'We were unloading..', yet the CEO saw no evidence of this, presumably just a locked vehicle on DYL hence the absolutely correctly issued PCN, you cannot have or should not have any gripes on this point if you were parked on DYL with no-one in attendance at the vehicle and no evidence of unloading at the vehicle, CEO's are not clairvoyant.

But just because the PCN was issued correctly on the basis of the evidence available go the CEO at the time does not mean that an exemption does not apply because unloading can take place away from the vehicle. So l, no moans about the PCN. It's now down to you to provide sufficient proof to the authority that you were entitled to the exemption.

But so far you haven't.

But that's no problem. The proof with informal reps would be the same as now. All we need to do is to target your effort correctly, it's not a blame game and has nothing to do with other cars. It's you, and you only.



Sorry thought you were here to help? Of course it is to do with other vehicles, other vehicles were blocking the loading bays, they were cars, and had entered a pedestrian zone to park in a loading bay and were not unloading, hence my parking on DYL to do what i needed to do. That is the basis of my complaint that i was unable to park in a LB becuase of the councils neglect to check all vehicles, the bays were about 50m away so hardly far.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DancingDad
post Wed, 30 Jan 2019 - 10:18
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 25,726
Joined: 28 Jun 2010
From: Area 51
Member No.: 38,559



You miss HCA's point.
Which is similar to the one I made in post 2.
To claim and win on loading exemption you need to supply some sort of proof.
Otherwise we would all happily park on double yellows and claim loading when we got a PCN.

The same applies had you been parked in a loading bay without obvious sign of loading.

It matters not what other cars were parked where.
It matters not that the loading bays were full
Those are not any exemption or excuse for parking on yellow lines, all you will get is that you should have found somewhere else to park.

You parked to unload some items.
You say a vehicle?? and car parts.
That falls into the loading exemption and reason to cancel the PCN. Indeed it must be cancelled if accepted.
But you need to show some evidence.
For loading to count, parked only for as long as necessary and items must be heavy or bulky enough to warrant parking as close as possible.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
markadams
post Wed, 30 Jan 2019 - 10:31
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 69
Joined: 13 Jul 2011
Member No.: 48,200



much better way of putting it dancingdad
if they dont accept, im concerned that even though ive sent in what they asked, albeit they say the first lot did not arrive, that i only have to pay £35 charge not the £70
The letter requesting for my reasons did not state i could upload online, it did not state anything, but it did have an address to which i sent it to, there was no email address to upload documantes therefore if they say tough it was lost in the post my probelm, they did not give me the opportunity to send it online wereby it could not possibly `get lost` hope youre following me.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Wed, 30 Jan 2019 - 10:39
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (markadams @ Wed, 30 Jan 2019 - 10:00) *
QUOTE (hcandersen @ Wed, 30 Jan 2019 - 09:50) *
Where are the council's photos?

'We were unloading..', yet the CEO saw no evidence of this, presumably just a locked vehicle on DYL hence the absolutely correctly issued PCN, you cannot have or should not have any gripes on this point if you were parked on DYL with no-one in attendance at the vehicle and no evidence of unloading at the vehicle, CEO's are not clairvoyant.

But just because the PCN was issued correctly on the basis of the evidence available go the CEO at the time does not mean that an exemption does not apply because unloading can take place away from the vehicle. So l, no moans about the PCN. It's now down to you to provide sufficient proof to the authority that you were entitled to the exemption.

But so far you haven't.

But that's no problem. The proof with informal reps would be the same as now. All we need to do is to target your effort correctly, it's not a blame game and has nothing to do with other cars. It's you, and you only.



Sorry thought you were here to help? Of course it is to do with other vehicles, other vehicles were blocking the loading bays, they were cars, and had entered a pedestrian zone to park in a loading bay and were not unloading, hence my parking on DYL to do what i needed to do. That is the basis of my complaint that i was unable to park in a LB because of the councils neglect to check all vehicles, the bays were about 50m away so hardly far.

Perhaps you should read what you quoted, he did help, he explained the process and why the council hadn't done anything wrong, if you are to avail yourself of a statutory exemption (loading/unloading) the onus is on you to prove the exemption applies, not on the council to prove it doesn't. The council have even invited you to prove your case reasonably.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DancingDad
post Wed, 30 Jan 2019 - 11:34
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 25,726
Joined: 28 Jun 2010
From: Area 51
Member No.: 38,559



No one here can guarantee what the council may do in regard to re-offering discount.
But put that out of your mind.
Absolute worst case should you lose (and have not missed deadlines) is 70 quid, that is an extra fiver a week for 7 weeks.
Easy enough to save as the process can and will take longer then 7 weeks should this go through full process.

Get your evidence together, make copies and keep the originals.
If post is only option, put two or three copies in the post, one will get through.
Or phone council and ask if they have an email addy you can use.
Mention in covering letter that you had already sent but as they seem to have gone missing, please accept new copies.

Treat it all as simple problems and solutions, far easier to deal with then instead of one big mess.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
markadams
post Wed, 30 Jan 2019 - 13:19
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 69
Joined: 13 Jul 2011
Member No.: 48,200



Thankyou dancingdad , i did mention that its gone missing but the letter said its now £70 oor wait for the issue of a notice to owner to the resgitered keeper which will advise of the formal parking procedure....what does this mean
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DancingDad
post Wed, 30 Jan 2019 - 15:15
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 25,726
Joined: 28 Jun 2010
From: Area 51
Member No.: 38,559



Means what it says.

If you do nothing at the moment, the next Notice will be a Notice to Owner.
This will be sent to the Registered Keeper as shown on the DVLA registration document (is that you and is this all up to date with correct address)
This will formalise the penalty and make the registered keeper liable for the £70
They then have choice to pay or formally challenge, 28 day deadline.

After that, if challenged and rejected, chance to appeal to independent adjudicators who are not attached to council and should act fairly.
If it gets that far they would expect evidence but the penalty remains at £70, no extra costs.

We can guide you through all steps.
And if dealt with properly and with evidence, should win.

For the moment, are you the registered keeper and is the V5c (registration document) correct and up to date ?
Physically get it out and check if in doubt.


And what were the parts and what evidence have you got ?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
markadams
post Thu, 31 Jan 2019 - 09:39
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 69
Joined: 13 Jul 2011
Member No.: 48,200



yes i am the RO , ive had that problem before and a high court writ go to wrong address and man turns up wanting 5.5k or my stuff goes. Its better to know about these things to be able to defend
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Thu, 31 Jan 2019 - 10:08
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



Assuming you mean registered owner, there is no such register, what is registered is the keeper.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DancingDad
post Thu, 31 Jan 2019 - 10:39
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 25,726
Joined: 28 Jun 2010
From: Area 51
Member No.: 38,559



What were the parts being delivered?
What evidence can you supply ?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

3 Pages V   1 2 3 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 29th March 2024 - 05:22
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here