PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

LC20 please help me i need your advice
Had28
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 12:05
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: 18 Sep 2018
Member No.: 99,940



Greetings guys, i have never been tought that i can get into situation like that.. but lets start from beggining, in 21 January 2018 i have been stopped by police when i was going back on sunday from work, I had my CBF125 that time and that day my L sticker was ripped off , when police stopped me they said that its due to high thievery in area and they need to check if the bike is stolen. Everything went fine but they sadi they have to fine me for not having L sticker on the front , i tried to tell them that it happened today and they told me that i will have to appeal upon that and i've received 100 pounds with 3 points, it felt terrible. After that i was trying to appeal and waiting for the letter to come, i've received one 5 th march 2018 but there is no clear instructions where i should appeal it just says ' If you wish to decline or are unable to accept this offer, you can either write to us notyfying us of your intention or alternatively do nothing. I couldn't find the address, when i have called Metorpolitan Police line they advised me email adress to write to which I did, but havent receifved reply. Time went on and I have moved out the flat i was renting at 1st of July, and yesterday i went to agency to pick up the letters and foudn out that i've received 2 letters dating 27 of July and 28 of August, and i discovered this yesterday that the Fine went up to 350, i don't know what to do now is there any way I can appeal upon that now? by going to court? can it go wrong? Im afraid that because of these 3 points the insurance can go up and of course 350 pounds is really a lot for me as i am a student and working full time. Can u guys please advise me what to do i am really highly concerned about that, i am about to seek legal advice if i can do anything about that
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 12:05
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Had28
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 12:33
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: 18 Sep 2018
Member No.: 99,940



I have just called to make an Statuatory Declaration and i have hearing on 2nd of October as ive readed the posts that it may help in that case, I gonna try to say everything frmo the begginign that day, i hope that it wont be a problem that english is not my mother language and its gonna be my first time at the court

This post has been edited by Had28: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 12:33
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
AntonyMMM
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 12:41
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,547
Joined: 17 May 2010
Member No.: 37,614



When you make the Statutory Declaration, it sets aside the conviction but the original charge remains. After you make the SD, you will probably be asked to make a plea of guilty/not guilty to the not displaying L Plate offence - if you are going to contest it and plead Not Guilty, then the case will be listed for a trial on another date.

As you were riding without an L Plate (even if it had been stolen earlier that day) you will struggle to win the case and if you do lose the costs of the trial will be paid by you (in addition to the fine + points)

This post has been edited by AntonyMMM: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 12:41
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Had28
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 13:47
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: 18 Sep 2018
Member No.: 99,940



Do you think it is better to pay it then? or i can do anything there now
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
seank
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 13:55
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 398
Joined: 15 Apr 2013
Member No.: 61,183



A stat dec will reset the £350 back to the original £100 and 3 points, because it seems you didn't know about the future hearing.
What appeal could you make?
You admit you were riding not in accordance with your licence, ie a learner riding without "L"plates, for whatever reason.
I'd immediately plead guilty to that, but cannot see why you didn't pay the fixed penalty. I've never come across such a form without the precise addresses you need to pay.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 13:58
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



QUOTE (seank @ Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 14:55) *
A stat dec will reset the £350 back to the original £100 and 3 points

A statutory declaration will set aside the conviction and sentence. The matter will not revert back to the fixed penalty. If the OP is convicted or pleads guilty then it would be open to him to ask to be sentenced at the fixed penalty level if the reason for not taking up the fixed penalty was unconnected with the offence. However, if he simply ignored the offer of a fixed penalty I don’t see a court having much sympathy with him.


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Logician
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 15:47
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,572
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



If you make the SD and plead guilty you will be dealt with again by a court and, as SP says there is no obvious reason why they should sentence you at the fixed penalty rate, so it will probably be in accordance with guidelines, which is 50% of your net weekly income, less 33% for your guilty plea, plus surcharge of 10% (minimum £30) plus £85 costs. If that is more than £350 there is no advantage in making the SD, if it is less there is but you have to decide whether it is worth the bother. Best not to ignore these things.


--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Had28
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 15:54
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: 18 Sep 2018
Member No.: 99,940



Basically i wanted to contest it and I've sent a mail to new.scotland.yard@met.police.uk at 4th of April as i was advised by phone when i called helpline before and since that time i havent heard back any message and i was busy studying, then i changed the adress and that happened, is that enough for SD? can i ask to have it decreased as it was first time ever i had any conviction, and that unfortunately day that they caught me without it. or is it better to pay it off in 3 installments? sad.gif(( im depressed

i have copy of mail and copy of my tenancy agreement to provide proof that i was out before the letters and mail that i tried to contact them

This post has been edited by Had28: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 15:58
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 15:59
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



Now the matter is in the court system you have to 'contest' it there.

So that's either pleading not guilty or going guilty and use some mitigation. As already noted, there's a slim chance of getting a fixed penalty equivalent sentence (and no costs order) but worth trying.

The issue as a strict liability offence you don't appear to have a defence and any mitigation won't be strong enough to avoid the mandatory endorsement.

The court would consider instalments upon conviction - and your actual earnings will be used. (The current figure is using default figures)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Logician
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 16:00
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,572
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



You can make an SD within 21 days of coming aware of a court hearing which you were not previously aware of. The police can now do nothing about it, you have been sentenced by a court. After being sentenced by the court you can ask for time to pay, that applies to the £350 or any amount set at a new hearing.


--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Had28
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 16:16
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: 18 Sep 2018
Member No.: 99,940



I was about to plead that i am guilty and i was unaware of the situation and i wanted still to contest it, in that case is there possibility tat i will have to pay more than 350? can they charge me ? If i will tell that i am full time student and full time working and its really hard to tie ends , is there possibility to reverrt it to fixed penalty ? and it was stupid inconvienience that they catched me without one L plate when i had other one, and it was sticker one so it was easly ripped of and I had no chance to buy it that time when they caught me.


PS.

Would u guys try with a SD in that circumstances ? or better to avoid paying extra costs

This post has been edited by Had28: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 16:17
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 16:22
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



A sympathetic bench could consider a fixed penalty equivalent sentence as mentioned above.

Court costs are £85 for a guilty plea. There's a surcharge of 10% of the fine, minimum £30. The best you could get is a £70 fine, £30 surcharge and no costs order. (It's always 3 points)

With 'no income' they use a default minimum weekly figure of £120 for which you'd also get a 33% discount for a guilty plea. (They've used a figure of £440 right now)

I don't see any risk unless you are looking to plead not guilty...


From the Sentencing Guidelines:
QUOTE
where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence
itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point
should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be
imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in
these circumstances.


This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 16:25


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Had28
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 16:31
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: 18 Sep 2018
Member No.: 99,940



QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 16:22) *
A sympathetic bench could consider a fixed penalty equivalent sentence as mentioned above.

Court costs are £85 for a guilty plea. There's a surcharge of 10% of the fine, minimum £30. The best you could get is a £70 fine, £30 surcharge and no costs order. (It's always 3 points)

With 'no income' they use a default minimum weekly figure of £120 for which you'd also get a 33% discount for a guilty plea. (They've used a figure of £440 right now)

I don't see any risk unless you are looking to plead not guilty...


From the Sentencing Guidelines:
QUOTE
where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence
itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point
should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be
imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in
these circumstances.



So in the end if i will plead to be guilty there is a chance that i can pay less than 350 that they charged me to do so? So i see that is worth trying
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Logician
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 16:32
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,572
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 17:22) *
With 'no income' they use a default minimum weekly figure of £120 for which you'd also get a 33% discount for a guilty plea. (They've used a figure of £440 right now)


The OP says he works full time, as well as being a student.



--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 16:54
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



Ok, depends on actual weekly income then. (If a fixed Penalty equivalent not allowed)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Had28
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 23:46
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: 18 Sep 2018
Member No.: 99,940



QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 16:54) *
Ok, depends on actual weekly income then. (If a fixed Penalty equivalent not allowed)

Hello i have question to you about the case you was answering me 2 wks ago. As i am going 2nd of next month to the Court for Statuatory Declaration and i will take my mail that ive send on april and proof of address, from what you replied i can see that you know the costs etc, do you think that in my case i will be facing more to pay or it means that because i will plea to be guilty as obviously i did the offence, is that worth the try?

BTW. ive tried to message you private but you have full inbox.

This post has been edited by Had28: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 23:47
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 08:33
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



I'm not sure what you're asking exactly. Are you asserting you may have a defence?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
peterguk
post Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 08:36
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,735
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



QUOTE (Had28 @ Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 00:46) *
BTW. ive tried to message you private but you have full inbox.

We keep the thread public so you receive input from all members, not just one.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Had28
post Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 13:44
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: 18 Sep 2018
Member No.: 99,940



Im not sure if thats defence but I was trying to contest the ticket before and I couldn't get through and ive changed adressses , couldn't see that it was this stage arleady.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 14:56
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



On what basis were you trying to contest it?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 29th March 2024 - 01:05
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here