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Parking on a private driveway without permission
Korting
post Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 16:29
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Today, my friend went to leave her house and found a large van had parked on her driveway. She didn't need her car but she wouldn't have been able to get it out because of the way the van was parked.

The driver of the van did not have and certainly did not ask permission to park on the drive.

So what can one do if faced with this situation?

You cant clamp it, you cant get inside it or break into it to release the handbrake. It is I understand to glue a notice to the windscreen.

So what can one legally do?
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post Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 16:29
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oldstoat
post Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 16:33
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I believe you can remove it under the common law of necessity. I am sure others will pop long to expand the actual rules


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DancingDad
post Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 17:08
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On her driveway?
Not just across the end ?
Any company name on the van ?

Best of luck to anyone trying parking on my drive, they could have a significant problem getting out again.
I've always got at least one car on the road that would be rapidly parked adjacent to the dropped kerb.
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samthecat
post Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 18:27
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I don't think you have any legal power outside of getting a court order for the vehicle to be removed and then pursuing a civil claim against the other party.

I can understand why someone might choose some illegal actions in the circumstances.


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nigelbb
post Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 18:50
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We recently had a similar case on the forum where it turned out that the van driver had parked the van on the wrong drive. It may well be the case here that the driver isn't being cheeky just mistaken.

If the OP's friend needed t get the car out to go to work then the options would be to use a taxi then sue the van driver or to smash a window & release the handbrake to move the van back out onto the street. In the latter case they would need to be prepared for repercussions & to use the common law defence of necessity if charged with criminal damage.


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British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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southpaw82
post Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 20:09
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 18:50) *
to use the common law defence of necessity if charged with criminal damage.

Are you sure? Not s 5(2)(b) of the Criminal Damage Act 1971?


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southpaw82
post Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 20:39
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Even though I am full of the Christmas spirit I’m still going to moderate people who decide it’s a good idea to advise others to commit offences.


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Korting
post Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 21:23
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 18:50) *
If the OP's friend needed t get the car out to go to work then the options would be to use a taxi then sue the van driver or to smash a window & release the handbrake to move the van back out onto the street. In the latter case they would need to be prepared for repercussions & to use the common law defence of necessity if charged with criminal damage.


I dont think she would ever go down that route.

But what would happen if you then blocked them in with another car?

Or better still stuck a big notice across the windscreen with a hard to remove glue?

When they returned they didn't even apologise, in fact that were arrogant and rude.

QUOTE
Best of luck to anyone trying parking on my drive, they could have a significant problem getting out again.
I've always got at least one car on the road that would be rapidly parked adjacent to the dropped kerb.


But in London parking across a drop kerb is a contravention itself and restrictions were in force at the time.

This post has been edited by Korting: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 21:25
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Redivi
post Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 21:38
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But what would happen if you then blocked them in with another car?
Offence under the Protection of Freedoms Act

The only immobilising that's legal is locking a gate
If they're as obnoxious as you say, probably just as well she didn't

Or better still stuck a big notice across the windscreen with a hard to remove glue?
It's criminal damage

But in London parking across a drop kerb is a contravention itself and restrictions were in force at the time.
There's an exemption if it's the home-owner or somebody parked with his permission

My former neighbour once found a cart (minus the horse) left in his drive

This post has been edited by Redivi: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 21:41
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cp8759
post Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 23:03
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QUOTE (Korting @ Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 16:29) *
So what can one legally do?

You can't tow it as that would be an offence under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, however at the same time as creating that offence they extended the powers of the local council to tow vehicles from "other land", so your legal recourse is to ask the council to tow it.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 23:15


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stamfordman
post Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 23:10
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QUOTE (Korting @ Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 16:29) *
She didn't need her car but she wouldn't have been able to get it out because of the way the van was parked.


I expect she would have been able to alert/locate the owner/driver. It's the sort of thing that does happen occasionally - I can only recall one instance where I was blocked in and couldn't alert/find the blocker easily.



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Mat_Shamus
post Thu, 27 Dec 2018 - 10:26
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Is it lawful to relocate the van onto the road if no damage is caused?
I.e by towing it, or putting trolley jacks under the rear wheels and using them to push it off te driveway?


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The Rookie
post Thu, 27 Dec 2018 - 10:33
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My understanding is yes, that is what I was told I could do by the Police when boxed in by an illegally parked car (we were nose in to the kerb, he parked sideways across behind about 4-5 cars), we just bumped it round out the way. The police had said as long as we took reasonable care they didn’t consider it any offence if damage was done in the process.

The owner came back as we were just leaving (another boxed in car had already gone) and seemed rather annoyed, he threatened us with the Police, I said he was welcome to report himself for causing an obstruction, at that point he seemed less inclined.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Thu, 27 Dec 2018 - 10:34


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Korting
post Thu, 27 Dec 2018 - 11:45
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 23:10) *
I expect she would have been able to alert/locate the owner/driver. It's the sort of thing that does happen occasionally - I can only recall one instance where I was blocked in and couldn't alert/find the blocker easily.


This appears to have been deliberate, she knocked on the door of the house the driver had parked in but the denied all knowledge of it.

The upshot seems to be that anyone can park on anyone else's drive, without permission and there is nothing that the property owner can do about it except operate a gate where one exists.

This post has been edited by Korting: Thu, 27 Dec 2018 - 11:47
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Fredd
post Thu, 27 Dec 2018 - 11:54
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QUOTE (Korting @ Thu, 27 Dec 2018 - 11:45) *
The upshot seems to be that anyone can park on anyone else's drive, without permission and there is nothing that the property owner can do about it except operate a gate where one exists.

If by "upshot" you mean a pre-conceived view not subsequently reviewed in the light of comments made following your initial post, then yes.


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Churchmouse
post Thu, 27 Dec 2018 - 12:32
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QUOTE (Korting @ Thu, 27 Dec 2018 - 11:45) *
The upshot seems to be that anyone can park on anyone else's drive, without permission and there is nothing that the property owner can do about it except operate a gate where one exists.

Confining the vehicle onto a piece of private land where its presence is not wanted would not seem to be a very effective solution to the problem?

--Churchmouse
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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 27 Dec 2018 - 16:39
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Trolley jacks.

We used to keep them when I worked as a manager in a city centre shop where people parked in the loading bay routinely so that you could get a car past but not a 44T artic.

We used to move them into the middle of the adjacent one way road, although ironically I don't think they ever got a parking ticket. Traffic wardens seemed to regard being in the middle of the road, with traffic passing either side, as being out of their jurisdiction. Despite that we had someone who parked their three times!


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oldstoat
post Thu, 27 Dec 2018 - 19:09
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 20:09) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 18:50) *
to use the common law defence of necessity if charged with criminal damage.

Are you sure? Not s 5(2)(b) of the Criminal Damage Act 1971?



no not sure, that is why I said i was sure others would pop along with better advice. I must be honest, that i thought necessity in common law, would have covered the removal. i stand corrected


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southpaw82
post Thu, 27 Dec 2018 - 19:18
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QUOTE (oldstoat @ Thu, 27 Dec 2018 - 19:09) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 20:09) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 18:50) *
to use the common law defence of necessity if charged with criminal damage.

Are you sure? Not s 5(2)(b) of the Criminal Damage Act 1971?



no not sure, that is why I said i was sure others would pop along with better advice. I must be honest, that i thought necessity in common law, would have covered the removal. i stand corrected

I didn't quote you...


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anon45
post Thu, 27 Dec 2018 - 22:23
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 20:09) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Wed, 26 Dec 2018 - 18:50) *
to use the common law defence of necessity if charged with criminal damage.

Are you sure? Not s 5(2)(b) of the Criminal Damage Act 1971?

This general question was discussed at length in the 'bad old days' of clamping; old threads may be found using the search function, but it's probably best if they are not revived, some six years on.

Based on Lindon v Chamberlain: https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/1998/329.html, and based on the interpretation of the statute on 'lawful excuse' in every case involving damage to any property whatsoever other than PPC wheelclamps, I think that it is arguable that, in the situation posed in the OP, the friend might have had a lawful excuse to break the windscreen in order to release the handbrake to get the trespassing van off her driveway; if a lawful excuse defence indeed applies, then it would not be criminal damage after. [mod edit]

However, the success of any such defence would depend both on the specific facts of the case and on the beliefs of the defendant, and I can understand why the moderators are very reluctant to allow blanket statements advocating damage to property, or stating categorically that such damage would be lawful, to stand unchallenged. Even if acquitted, defending a prosecution for criminal damage could involve considerable cost (which is unlikely to be fully reimbursable), stress and hassle, so should not be undertaken as a first resort, nor without careful consideration of both the alternatives and the risks associated with adopting a 'self-help solution'.

This post has been edited by southpaw82: Fri, 28 Dec 2018 - 00:00
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