Failture to Comply with No Entry Restriction - London Borough of Sutton |
Failture to Comply with No Entry Restriction - London Borough of Sutton |
Wed, 30 Sep 2020 - 10:26
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: 30 Sep 2020 Member No.: 109,957 |
Hi there
I received a PCN on 21/07/20 for Failing to Comply with a no entry restriction in Tweeddale Road, Carshalton, recorded by camera by the London Borough of Sutton. At the time I was visiting my elderly father in hospital who had been transferred from his local hospital in East Surrey where a couple of days prio he had been resuscitated so I was a bit upset. Essentially in looking for a parking space, I reversed approx 5/6 meters into a one way street, passing a no entry sign all of which was recorded on camera [see photo]. I live miles away in Bucks so was unfamiliar with the area. I was aware I was entering a one way street, however I don't recall seeing any Traffic camera enforcement signs upon entering Tweedale Road from Wyrthe lane. As it's so far from where I live, I haven't been able to go back to check for signage, which I wanted to use as the basis for my representation. The councils own camera reveals a camera enforcement sign further along Tweedale Road at the junction of Tichfield Road which I would never have seen as it is located behind any driver going down the one way street [see photo]. A check on Google Maps street view of the most recent images (5/2018) shows no camera enforcement signs present at the entrance to Tweeddale so I went ahead with a representation on that basis which I submitted online on the 17/8/20. Since then I heard nothing until I received a Charge Certificate issued on the 18/9/20 (I was away for 1 week and only saw this letter on the 26/9). I was surprised to receive this and thought maybe they hadn’t received my online representation so this time I emailed them sending them screen shot evidence of my submission. This morning I received a letter from them, they noted they had received my representation on 17/8/20 but state that it's too late to challenge or continue challenging the PCN as it is outside the legal timescale. I now have 14 days/until Fri 2/10 to pay the total amount due of £195. They also sent a copy of the Notice of Rejection of Representations (undated) which I never received but they say was served on 18/8/20. What are my options in this situation? I admit my initial representation wasn't watertight as I was unable to physically check the presence of signage. Clearly in not receiving their Rejection of Representations I’ve had no opportunity to appeal which I think is unfair and the charges have also gone up. THe video can be viewed here: https://youtu.be/S6-ODOtlTbs PCN, Representaitons, Acknowledgement and Rejection documents are available to view: Many thanks in advance for your help This post has been edited by LibertyLass: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 - 12:45 |
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Wed, 30 Sep 2020 - 10:26
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Wed, 30 Sep 2020 - 10:41
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
You need to post the video and the PCN you need to post your representation and the rejection. and also the acknowledgement that they recieved the representation.
We can get this back to the PCN amount and could well have a good chance of winning an appeal -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 30 Sep 2020 - 11:51
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: 30 Sep 2020 Member No.: 109,957 |
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Wed, 30 Sep 2020 - 11:52
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like as space on forum is limited.
Put videos on Youtube, Imgur, Vimeo or such like. The process now is to wait for the order for recovery of the debt and you can make a declaration that you did not get the rejection, after which the council must refer the case to the tribunal. See: https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/unde...rcement-process is the name and address correct on the docs? All well normally with post? This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 - 11:56 |
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Wed, 30 Sep 2020 - 13:04
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
You recieved a PCN and a Charge certificate so i assume the address is correct but please confirm it is address exactly the same as the v5c.
You must now wait for a document called an order for recovery this will allow you to make a declaration to the TEC ( the court) that you made representations against the PCn but did not receive a response The council will then be ordered to revoke the charge certificate and order for recovery and refer the matter to the adjudicator. The adjudicator will want confirmation of your representations. You have this from the council. The adjudicator will then list the matter for appeal. Where with our help you will win. There are cases where appeals have been allowed when a motorist backs through a no entry to access a parking bay. Whilst not strictly correct adjudicators find that doing this is different to the mischief the restriction was designed to prevent But what I venture to say is almost a certain win is that the NOR sent to you as a copy is so legally deficient as regards the requirements of the regulations that is cannot be classed as a valid document and enforcement cannot continue because of it -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 30 Sep 2020 - 13:14
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
here's video. We have a case where this manouvre was ruled not to be a contravention but here we can't see how far along you were before reversing.
PMB is also on top of the deficiencies in the rejection. The key now is to ensure you receive the order for recovery and this could entail checking with TEC in due course. This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 - 13:14 |
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Thu, 1 Oct 2020 - 15:51
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: 30 Sep 2020 Member No.: 109,957 |
To be honest this was so long ago, I can't recall how far down the road I was before I spotted the parking space, stopped then reversed into it. Surely the video footage/stills would be a good enough indicator/evidence for this? When I watched the video I thought this PCN was actually quite petty as how else are you supposed to access the parking space if there is another vehicle behind.
Hi PASTMYBEST, Thanks for outlining what the process it. Yes the address is the PCN and charge certificate is correct. I'm assuming the order for recovery will be sent by the council and that the NOR is the Notice of Refusel. I will post an update once I receive the the order for recovery. Many thanks |
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Thu, 1 Oct 2020 - 16:41
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 29,265 Joined: 16 Jan 2008 Member No.: 16,671 |
Their claim of issuing a NoR just one day after receiving your representations doesn't sound likely; further suspect
by there being no date on the copy rejection. -------------------- |
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Thu, 1 Oct 2020 - 19:10
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Their claim of issuing a NoR just one day after receiving your representations doesn't sound likely; further suspect by there being no date on the copy rejection. I agree -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 24 Nov 2020 - 00:38
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: 30 Sep 2020 Member No.: 109,957 |
No order for recovery received to date, I'm wondering if there is there a time limit? Also what if they sent it and like before I never received it, is there a way to find out, eg by contacting the court?
I checked the latest status on their Parking Enforcement Direct website which still shows an outstanding charge of £195.00 for this PCN. |
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Wed, 25 Nov 2020 - 18:15
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
There isn't a firm time limit unfortunately, you'll just have to wait.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 5 Jul 2021 - 21:16
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: 30 Sep 2020 Member No.: 109,957 |
Righto I just received the statotory decleration and have manged to get it witnessed. Both me and the solicitor (a corporatate solicicitor) were unable to complete the form, does anyone know what should be written after "in the"? the forms format is below:
I've gave the reason [didn;t received rejection notice] and Signed [by me] Dated [date] Declared at: [address where it was witnessed] in the [??] in the This [1st] day of [July 20[21] |
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Tue, 6 Jul 2021 - 07:35
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: 30 Sep 2020 Member No.: 109,957 |
Or any sources to where I can get guidance on how to correctly complete a pre written SD statutory deceleration form. I've tried hunting around (including downloading a SD form from this site) but have been unable to establish what goes in the above.
ALso does anyone know what happens next after sending off the SD? This post has been edited by LibertyLass: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 - 07:44 |
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Tue, 6 Jul 2021 - 08:41
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Post what you have been sent it is really only a tick box procedure
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 6 Jul 2021 - 12:50
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: 30 Sep 2020 Member No.: 109,957 |
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Tue, 6 Jul 2021 - 15:29
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
That is all you need to do
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 6 Jul 2021 - 15:31
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: 30 Sep 2020 Member No.: 109,957 |
thank you for checking PastMyBest.
ANy idea what happens next? |
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Tue, 6 Jul 2021 - 16:07
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
thank you for checking PastMyBest. ANy idea what happens next? Yes the TEC will revoke the charge certificate and the correct procedure is that the council then refer the case to the tribunal for direction. This will be that you substantiate your statutory declaration by submitting a copy of your appeal or some means to show that it was made so proof of posting or email acknowledgement you do this and the case wil be listed for a hearing and you will be invited to make submissions to the tribunal OR The council will re send a copy of the NOR. in which case you appeal as normal Let us know when you get the revocation order -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sun, 21 Nov 2021 - 09:53
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: 30 Sep 2020 Member No.: 109,957 |
So I think I’ve made a hash of this. I received a OE2 Order for Recovery of Unpaid Penalty Charge on the 18/6/21
I returned the Statutory declaration on the 7/7/21 to Northampton Court which was within the required 21 days by recorded post. However I omitted something on the form which meant the paperwork was sent back to me on the 12/7/21 whilst I was overseas. After speaking with the court, this meant I had to file an Out of Time application on forms PE2 and PE3. It was witnessed on the 19/8/21 and sent by email along with supporting evidence of my boarding passes to the court on the 20/08/21. I didn’t receive any response to this email so contacted the court on 15/9/21 after receiving a charge notice from London Borough of Sutton. The court advised I should have received an automated response to my email of 20/8/21 which I didn’t. I resent the Out of Time application forms PE2 and PE3 again by email on the 15/9/21 and on this occasion an auto responder was received. On the 28/9/21 I received a response to my Witness Statement from the London Borough of Sutton where they opposed it’s filing on the grounds that * my vehicle was captured by CCTV on 15/7/20 disobeying a sign and entering a pedestrian zone. * the PCN was issued on 21/7/20 * The local authority received a representation from me on 17/8/20 and a Notice of Rejection was served on me on 18/8/20 * as they received no payment a Charge Certificate was served on me on 18/9/21 for £195 * The Order for Recovery was served on me on 17/6/21 for payment of £203. On the 6/11/21 I received a letter from Northampton Court advising me that my Out of Time application has been refused. And they are unable to assist with any queries as to why. I have the option to apply for a review of this decision by completing a N244 Application Notice form. If I go down this route, a hearing fee is due of £275 for a review by a District Judge at my nearest County Court. Else £108 for a review by a district judge without a hearing. I have until tomorrow 22/11/21 to respond. My question is with all these delays etc is it worth me going down the hearing route or should I settle up the Charge Certitficate payment of £278? This post has been edited by LibertyLass: Sun, 21 Nov 2021 - 10:09 |
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Sun, 21 Nov 2021 - 11:13
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Oops - the in time stat dec really was a simple thing and must be accepted so not sure how you messed this up.
I don't think it's worth going down the judge route. Surely you owe £208 - have you also received a bailiff enforcement notice? |
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