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Parking Eye ANPR based PCN, Payment made but no receipt
Rincewind
post Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 13:56
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Hi All

I think there is a problem

A car is in the garage for repair so the owner gets a courtesy car

21/6 Courtesy car is parked in a Parking Eye controlled car park. The ticket machine is down several flights of stairs. so finally arrving at the ticketing machine, cash was paid and a ticket obtained which was then displayed in the car

24/6 courtesy car was returned to the garage

3/7 Driver received a message from garage that the courtesy car had picked up a parking ticket (PCN) issued on 29/6
Of course at this stage, the courtesy car has been cleaned out and returned to the garage so any paper receipt had long since have disappeared

Seems likely that the driver had typed in the Reg of his usual car (unlikely to have remembered the Reg of the courtesy car) or perhaps simply mistyped the actual Reg No In either case, Parking Eye will have an unreconciled payment (one not associated with an ANPR registration).

This must be relatively common if only through simple mis-typing so there should be a process. For example, in a sensible world, the driver should be able to speak to Parking Eye, explain the situation, have them check for unreconciled payments and/or payments associated with the other Reg Number and got the matter cleared up.

But of course, contacting Parking eye is nigh on impossible (except by letter) and certainly not within the 14 day 40% off period.

Disappointing that the BPA code of conduct does not require operators to respond to customer queries with any degree of rapidity.

so, do you experts agree - pay up and chalk it down to experience? Or is there something the driver can do?

TFAI

This post has been edited by Rincewind: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 16:33
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post Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 13:56
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ostell
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 08:49
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The BPA Code of Practise used to required that a response to an appeal must be received within 35 days otherwise the appeal is assumed to have been accepted.

Don't say you were loaned a car, you were the herer/keeper.

Your POPLA appeal will be stating that PE failed to comply with POFA to be able to transfer liability to you , the hirer, from the driver. then go on to expand the point of 14 (2) (a)

Throw in any other items as well. Explain everything in simple terms, treat POPLA like 5 year olds.


How did the garage take your explanation of POFA?
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kommando
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 13:03
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QUOTE
A letter from Parking Eye dated 1 October arrived on Friday 30 October in an unpostmarked envelop


You need to check if the POPLA code is still valid as its time limited,

https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/popla-code-checker/

You do get a few days extra but not many.
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nigelbb
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 14:32
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QUOTE (ostell @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 09:49) *
Your POPLA appeal will be stating that PE failed to comply with POFA to be able to transfer liability to you , the hirer, from the driver. then go on to expand the point of 14 (2) (a)

I don't want to confuse the OP but it's the hire company as registered keeper who need to send the documents etc to PE to transfer liability to the hirer. If that didn't happen then PE could pursue the hire company. If that did happen (except it never does) then PE still need to send on copies of the documents etc to the hirer (which they cannot do as they never get them from the hire company).

POFA allows for the following transfer of liability for unpaid parking charges incurred by the driver in the case of a hire car however this requires that both the hire company & PE act as required by POFA which they never do so provided the driver is not revealed the hirer can never be liable.

Driver -> Registered Keeper (hire company) -> Hirer


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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Redivi
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 15:02
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The trade associations for the hire companies and parking companies reached an agreement

The hire companies didn't have to provide the documents to discharge their liability
Providing the hirers' contact details would be enough
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nigelbb
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 15:11
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 16:02) *
The trade associations for the hire companies and parking companies reached an agreement

The hire companies didn't have to provide the documents to discharge their liability
Providing the hirers' contact details would be enough

The upshot of this agreement is that the PPCs can never comply with the requirements of POFA to pursue the hirer. The BVRLA has a Memorandum of Understanding with the BPA but AFAIK not with the IPC.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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Rincewind
post Tue, 6 Nov 2018 - 11:04
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ostell: Point about keeper not driver noted. Thx

nigelbb: OK I think I get the message. If I may, I'll rewrite the proposed appeal (assuming I can get to make one) and post it here for comment.

kommando: According to the link you provided, the popla code went out of time on 29 Oct but at that stage I have not even received the letter. So how do I now generate an appeal? I cant talk to POPLA because I have no number. I have written to ParkingEYE because I cant telephone but I cant imagine them being helpful

How do I now appeal (assuming Parking Eye will not provide another POPLA number?

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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 6 Nov 2018 - 11:10
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You can't
It's up to the operator to provide the code to let you appeal

What you do is you TELL them you have no liability, and that if they threaten court action you will ask for a popla code as this is far cheaper.
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Redivi
post Tue, 6 Nov 2018 - 11:21
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POPLA codes work for six days after the official expiry date but even that deadline is now passed

What you could do is complain to the British Parking Association

You believe that ParkingEye's sub-contracted mailing service failed to send the letter promptly and used a non-post marked envelope to cover up its error
As a result, the POPLA code had expired before you received it

ParkingEye failed to meet the conditions of POFA to recover payment from the hirer but you have been deprived of the opportunity for POPLA to order the parking notice to be cancelled

As I result, the only option open to you to cancel the parking notice is by defending your position in the County Court at an unknown time in the future
In the meanwhile, you will be subjected to increasing demands over which you will have no control

You request that the BPA conducts an investigation and, in the interest of fairness, instructs ParkingEye to issue a new POPLA code
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Rincewind
post Tue, 6 Nov 2018 - 12:01
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So I've written to
  • ParkingEye complaining of the delayed rejection and asking that they allow my original appeal or provide a new POPLA code
  • British Parking as suggested outlining the delay in receipt of POPLA code and asking that they get ParkingEye to issue a new code
Thanks for the advice
Will report back

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Rincewind
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 13:29
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BPA have said they dont get involved in disputes between members and the public. I have responded about Parking Eye breaching the code of conduct and am waiting
I am still waiting to hear from ParkingEye

QUOTE (Redivi @ Tue, 6 Nov 2018 - 11:21) *
As I result, the only option open to you to cancel the parking notice is by defending your position in the County Court at an unknown time in the future
In the meanwhile, you will be subjected to increasing demands over which you will have no control


Ive just discovered I can appeal by post to POPLA giving reasons for the late appeal.I guess this is worth doing?
And, of course, I could always make up a valid POPLA code according tohttps://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/popla-codes/Perhaps this is not such a good idea?
And for the avoidance of doubt, the missing documents with the NTK (POFA 14 (2) (a) refers to POFA 13(2)) are
  1. - a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement;
  2. - a copy of the hire agreement; and
  3. - a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement?


This post has been edited by Rincewind: Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 14:28
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ostell
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 14:26
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Quick Google seardh would have fond POFA but here it is for you


(a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement;
(b)a copy of the hire agreement; and
©a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.
and the notice to keeper.
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Rincewind
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 14:29
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Thanks.
And the wisdom of appealing in writing to POPLA explaining also the delay ?
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ostell
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 14:38
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And don't forget they also have to supply a copy of the PCN that was sent to the lease compnay.

You write so that you can explain that PE sent you and incorrect POPLA code, and perhaps show them the letter that arrived late.
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Rincewind
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 14:51
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Thanks.Right. I'll give that a goRepeat the content of the appeal to PEAdd the statements about invalid POPLA codes and late arrival of letter.

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