Royal Free Hospital, Blue badge Options

[Bullit70]

Good morning

Some background information:

Dropped a close friend, who is registered disabled and has mental health issues at the Royal Free hospital, parking with a blue badge. This was my first visit to the hospital and was unaware of the stipulation that you need to "register" the blue badge with someone inside the hospital.

The driver was using a lease car and was only made aware of the alleged infringement via an email from the car rental provider.
Date of infringement 8/11/17
Car rental was only contacted by PE on the 14/12/17 and have advised "Our admin fee of £55 has been taken from your account and your details sent to the issuer, who will redirect the new PCN to yourself."

I emailed the RFHC communications dept on the 15.12.17 asking for full contact details for the person I would need to contact in order to challenge this. I was hoping this person would be able to cancel at source, thus having to prevent me spending unnecessary time getting anxiety attacks. I had a reply from their Car Parking team, stating "On the PCN are the details on how to appeal your ticket direct to parking eye, as the approved issuer.

So, my questions are; Has this "timed out", as it was just under 5 weeks between the infringement and the Car rental provider being contacted for the drivers details?

Do I just wait for the PCN to arrive directly from PE or do I need to send written correspondence to another 3rd party now, before the PE PCN arrives?

Apologies if this sounds a bit wayward, it is very stressful!

All help and advice gladly accepted.

xx

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[nosferatu1001]

You need to pop to the MSE forum, newbies thread, and read post one

With a HIRE / LEASE car situation it is IMPERATIVE that the driver is not identified. This is because the lessor will not be liable as NO ppc sends the required documents through.

Your second situation is to read the lease documents carefully. I bet they don’t properly include private parking charges. £55 is also not purely “admin” - that’s republish. It costs at most £10 to deal with these.

[The Rookie]

In terms of shutting this down, you need to get onto PALS at the hospital, they will normally cancel it for you in cases like this.

[Bullit70]

Hi Rookie

I called the PALS this morning and was advised to contact Ms D Davis. I have been trying her number all day to no avail. Having read through some of the related threads, I do seem to recall this name and that she wasn't overtly helpful. Will keep trying and maybe ask for her email address from the PALS?

Thanks

[Half_way]

Take a look at the NHS parking principles can't provide a link at the moment so google NHS parking principles.

[Bullit70]

In regards to reading the T&C's of the rental company, they state:

The Hirer shall be liable as owner of the vehicle in respect of;
a) Any fixed penalty offence committed in respect of that vehicle under part iii of The Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 or The Road Traffic Act 1991 as amended replaced or extended by any subsequent legislations or orders, and any such offence committed under the equivalent legislation applicable to Scotland, Northern Ireland or any British Isle upon which the vehicle is being used.

An administration fee of £55 will be applied to all motoring offences received.

Do I have grounds to appeal the £55? I have been renting cars for the last 2-3 months from them, so would be a loyal and continual customer.




I have also sent the message below to CARPARKINGENQUIRIES, ROYAL FREE

Good afternoon

Thank your for your reply. I called the PALS this morning and was advised to contact Ms D Davis on 0207 830 2345 to discuss this matter. I have tried a number of times but to no avail.

I am an unpaid Carer for the person who attended the hospital on the 08/11/17, who is registered disabled and has lifelong mental health issues (blue badge attached). The driver suffers from Autism Spectrum Disorder and this was their first time visiting the hospital and parked in a designated and correct parking space with the Blue Badge on show. This is a stressful time of the year for both of them and this matter will cause high levels of anxiety to both. I have been advised that there are very strong grounds to appeal this, but to be honest, would much prefer if you were able to cancel this at source. It would be very much appreciated from our end.

I look forward to a positive and swift reply.

Kindest regards
Mary

[ostell]

In regards to reading the T&C's of the rental company, they state:

The Hirer shall be liable as owner of the vehicle in respect of;
a) Any fixed penalty offence committed in respect of that vehicle under part iii of The Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 or The Road Traffic Act 1991 as amended replaced or extended by any subsequent legislations or orders, and any such offence committed under the equivalent legislation applicable to Scotland, Northern Ireland or any British Isle upon which the vehicle is being used.

An administration fee of £55 will be applied to all motoring offences received.

Do I have grounds to appeal the £55? I have been renting cars for the last 2-3 months from them, so would be a loyal and continual customer.

The notice received is neither a penalty nor an offence under the RTA, it is only a speculative invoice raised by a private company that does not have the power to issue fines or penalties. In other words their Ts & Cs are not relevant in this matter and they should not be applying a charge.

As this is a lease car then the 14 days applies to the leasing company receiving the original PCN but then they have to reply to PE with the details and then PE have additional time to get it out to the hirer. Probably within the time but check it out on POFA. What does matter is that they have told PE who the hirer was and the hirer/keeper (ie you) should be getting their very own copy of the pcn. This should arrive with your name on it, copies of portions of the rental agreement and a copy of the original PCN. If these aren't there, and PE and the other companies often don't, then POFA has not been complied with and therefore there can be no keeper (you) liability, only the unknown driver who you are not obliged to identify, and won't.

This post has been edited by ostell: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 - 17:05

[nosferatu1001]

Indeed, and they know as well. It’s also a complete crock. You cannot charge more than your actual admin costs either.

[Bullit70]

Thanks for the advice on the Rental T&C's. I have sent them an email and await their reply. Hopefully I will hear positive news from the RF Parking tomorrow!!

[nosferatu1001]

Expect them to be rubbish, but keep at them.
If they quibble come back. But the only way they can disagree is to state it’s a fpn which will be tricky...

[Bullit70]

Have been advised by the Head of Security and Support services at the RF, that we need to appeal to PE first and if not happy with the outcome, we can then come back to the RF and ask them to review.

Still waiting for a reply from the car rental regarding them taking £55 as an adnin fee.

Will keep this thread updated accordingly.

[Jlc]

...we need to appeal to PE first and if not happy with the outcome

I think I know the answer to this...

[Bullit70]

We both do!

Still, you have to play the game correctly.

[nosferatu1001]

Chase them

Mention chargeback , as it was an unauthorised charge, and you may get an answer....

[Bullit70]

Chase them

Mention chargeback , as it was an unauthorised charge, and you may get an answer....

Is this in relation to the rental company? I spoke to someone high up at the rental and he said for me to email him all the particulars, said he would speak to the person who does the pcn admin. I did state I will be renting regularly from them shortly, so they will get the £55 back! 😊😄

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

[nosferatu1001]

Yes, in relation to rental

The agreement only makes you liable for the charge when issued with a FPN. This isn’t one, but a mere invoice. Thy had no right to charge this £5t (which you would never pay anyway, it’s ludicrously high and unsupportable if challenged at court) so have made an unauthorised charge. Charge back if it was on credit card is alwsys a good threat. It costs them.

[Bullit70]

Good evening all

Quick update.

"PCN" addressed to the hirer was received via post with no date stamp on the envelope. Letter was typed on the 29.12.17 and PE were made aware of the hirers address on the 14.12.17. Allowing x2 days for posting, I was hoping that this would have "timed out" having exceeded 14 days. However, reading elsewhere on the forum, PE are allowed 21 days. Would this be correct?

In reply to Ostell:

As per your previous informative reply, PE have NOT sent any of the items you kindly listed. All that was sent were 2 pictures of the car, date and arrival/departure time. What would be your suggestion for a reply to PE, in order to have this cancelled as quickly as possible.

With regards to the £55 admin fee, I am still working on receiving a refund!

Many thanks in advance.

[nosferatu1001]

Yes, 21 days. But I bet they didn’t include a copy of the hire agreement, as required? They have NEVER done so.

So appeal to PE. They reject giving you a popla code. You appeal to popla and win.

Re the fee - what did they say when you pointed out this is t covered by their t and c?

[ostell]

A simple response stating that they have failed to comply withe the requitements of paragraph 14 of POFA to be able to hold you, the hirer/keeper, liable for the actions of the driver. There are no legal requirements to name the driver and you will not be doing so. You do not expect to hear from them again other than to confirm that no further action will be taken.

[Bullit70]

A simple response stating that they have failed to comply withe the requitements of paragraph 14 of POFA to be able to hold you, the hirer/keeper, liable for the actions of the driver. There are no legal requirements to name the driver and you will not be doing so. You do not expect to hear from them again other than to confirm that no further action will be taken.

Good evening Ostell

In addition to writing the above to PE, is it worth stating that a Blue Badge was on display in the car, but we were unaware that we would need to actually pay for parking? Or is that just going to prolong the process?

I am on PE's website and on the appeal page. I take it I need to select "Hirer/Lessee". Do I need to provide them with my home address?

Many thanks

This post has been edited by Bullit70: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 18:58