PCN (52M Failing to Comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles) |
PCN (52M Failing to Comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles) |
Sat, 25 Jun 2022 - 11:13
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 25 Jun 2022 Member No.: 117,021 |
Hello All,
Some advise please, should I appeal or pay? I received 3 penalty notices this morning, dates of offence 06/09/21 & 11/10/21 & 04/11/21 This new signage was introduced during 2021 not sure exactly which month I think it may have been June, this has been my route to work, my only issue is why has it taken them so long to issue the fine? 8-10 months after the offence do I have any lawful grounds to appeal on the length it has taken to send me these. Many thanks in a advance |
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Sat, 25 Jun 2022 - 11:13
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Sat, 25 Jun 2022 - 11:29
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,308 Joined: 9 May 2014 Member No.: 70,515 |
Is it your own vehicle and do you hold the V5 with your correct address?
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Sat, 25 Jun 2022 - 13:47
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#3
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 25 Jun 2022 Member No.: 117,021 |
Hi John,
It's a leased vehicle so V5 is registered to the lease company Thanks |
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Sat, 25 Jun 2022 - 13:58
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Ask the lease co when they received the PCN's and when they responded with your details you also need to ask what they sent to the council and when and if the council responded to them acknowledging cancelation of the PCN's issued to the lease co
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sun, 26 Jun 2022 - 19:32
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
And in the meantime show us the PCNs that you have received.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 27 Jun 2022 - 12:34
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#6
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 25 Jun 2022 Member No.: 117,021 |
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Mon, 27 Jun 2022 - 13:01
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#7
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 25 Jun 2022 Member No.: 117,021 |
Ask the lease co when they received the PCN's and when they responded with your details you also need to ask what they sent to the council and when and if the council responded to them acknowledging cancelation of the PCN's issued to the lease co Leasing company responses below: Offence 6-9-21 Lease notified 16-09-21 Lease responded 22-09-21 Offence 11-10-21 Lease notified 20-10-21 Lease responded 29-10-21 Offence 04-11-21 Lease notified 16-11-21 Lease responded 19-11-21 They sent my details, they received no notification that PCN is cancelled against them. Thanks |
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Mon, 27 Jun 2022 - 15:52
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Please give us the three PCN numbers and the dates of issue of the PCNs they sent to you and I will draft a challenge for you. Just so you know the council has been so slow in dealing with this that you're guaranteed to win at this point (as long as you follow our guidance), because the tribunal considers a delay of more than three months to be unfair.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 27 Jun 2022 - 16:22
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#9
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 25 Jun 2022 Member No.: 117,021 |
Please give us the three PCN numbers and the dates of issue of the PCNs they sent to you and I will draft a challenge for you. Just so you know the council has been so slow in dealing with this that you're guaranteed to win at this point (as long as you follow our guidance), because the tribunal considers a delay of more than three months to be unfair. Hello, I very much appreciate your assistance. 1- PCN Number: BZ97091034 Offence Date: 06/09/2021 Date of Notice: 23/06/2022 2- PCN Number: BZ97207751 Offence Date: 11/10/2021 Date of Notice: 23/06/2022 3- PCN Number: BZ97318413 Offence Date: 04/11/2021 Date of Notice: 23/06/2022 All three letters arrived on the same day, please let me know if you require anything further. Kind regards, |
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Mon, 27 Jun 2022 - 16:41
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Challenge each of the PCNs with the text below, you'll need to put it in a PDF in order to preserve all the indentation and italics formatting:
---------------- Dear London Borough of Barking & Dagenham, I challenge liability against PCNs BZ97091034, BZ97207751 and BZ97318413 on the following grounds. Section 4 of the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 provides, insofar as is relevant, that: A penalty charge notice under this section must—The PCNs served by the council wrongly state that the discounted penalty must be paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of service of the PCN, rather than before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice. The Penalty Charge Notices cannot therefore be substantially compliant as they do not convey the meaning required by the Act. While it might be thought that this error on the PCN is in the recipient's favour as prejudice is not established, I refer you to London Borough of Barnet Council, R (on the application of) v The Parking Adjudicator [2006] EWHC 2357 (Admin) where the High Court ruled as follows 40. Let me now turn to the present case. The two PCNs issued by the parking attendant in Barnet on 31st March 2005 both showed the date of the contravention. Neither PCN showed the date of the notice. The date on which the notice was issued ought to have been shown as a separate entry on the notice. On this ground alone, I hold that neither PCN achieved substantial compliance with section 66 of the 1991 Act.In this case the PCNs have been served under the 2003 Act, but the principle is the same: the PCNs are not substantially complaint with the requirements of the statutory scheme because they do not state what the Act requires them to state, and it follows that no liability to pay the penalties charge can arise. In light of the above, the only penalty that may be demanded is nil and the PCNs must be cancelled. I further challenge the penalties because of undue delay. The leasing company has informed me that it challenged PCN BZ97091034 on 22 September 2021, it challenged PCN BZ97207751 on 29 October 2021, and it challenged PCN BZ97318413 on 19 November 2021, the PCNs issued to me are all dated 23 June 2022. This means that the council took between between roughly seven to nine months to deal with the representations made by the leasing company. In line with Paul Richard Davis v The Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea (1970198981, 30 March 1998), the council is under a duty to act with reasonable expedition and without undue delay, which usually means that the council should respond to representations within two to three months. In light of the inordinate delays in this case, the council is no longer entitled to collect the penalties and it follows that the PCNs must be cancelled. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Mon, 27 Jun 2022 - 17:25
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#11
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 25 Jun 2022 Member No.: 117,021 |
Thank you so much for this very in depth response, I will challenge now.
Kind regards. |
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Wed, 29 Jun 2022 - 11:48
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#12
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 25 Jun 2022 Member No.: 117,021 |
Posted in response to PCN's via signed recorded delivery.
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Wed, 29 Jun 2022 - 11:51
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
When they get your letter it just gets scanned onto a computer anyway and the paper copies are shredded, so it seems like a bit of a waste of paper considering you could have made challenge online, but at this point it doesn't matter.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Wed, 29 Jun 2022 - 16:52
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#14
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 25 Jun 2022 Member No.: 117,021 |
When they get your letter it just gets scanned onto a computer anyway and the paper copies are shredded, so it seems like a bit of a waste of paper considering you could have made challenge online, but at this point it doesn't matter. Hi, My first choice was to challenge online, however they don't have an option to write more than 1000 characters or an option to attach a document, the website is very limited. Thanks. This post has been edited by KHALSA_1699: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 - 16:56 |
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Wed, 29 Jun 2022 - 17:51
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
My first choice was to challenge online, however they don't have an option to write more than 1000 characters or an option to attach a document, the website is very limited. That is very interesting, I had no idea that their website had such limited functionality. Don't expect a response any time soon, B&D seem to have a backlog of 6 to 9 months at the moment. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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