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H&F Shepherds Bush Road Strikes Again - Yellow Box Junction
D14mond
post Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 21:25
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Attached File  YBJ_HF_Shepherds_Bush_Road.pdf ( 1.6MB ) Number of downloads: 289


Hello All,

Help with a first draft to appeal would be gratefully received. I'm horrified at the number of posts on here with exactly the same road in Hammersmith and Fulham.

I've attached the PCN, images and the video.

As you will see from the video the car in front could have moved up but the cameraman pans away very quickly. Also as most people have said before that junction is impossible to predict. You can't know whether you will clear the junction until you get around the corner.







Here is a link to the video, hope it works as I couldn't think of another way to add it.

Video

I want to cry, really hate living in H&F sometimes.
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post Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 21:25
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 21:53
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PCN is flawed and de minimis re a policy document Stamfordman has


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stamfordman
post Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 22:26
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Link to Word doc. They say it is still current guidance.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&a...Na1u1_wax3_9yiM

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 22:26
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Neil B
post Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 23:31
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While I agree with the previous two replies I remain constantly amazed that these YBJ PCNs make people
come out with such a load of old tosh.
QUOTE (D14mond @ Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 21:25) *
You can't know whether you will clear the junction until you get around the corner.

This is the view before you enter the box -
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4971819,-...3312!8i6656


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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stamfordman
post Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 23:46
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 23:31) *
I remain constantly amazed that these YBJ PCNs make people
come out with such a load of old tosh.
QUOTE (D14mond @ Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 21:25) *
You can't know whether you will clear the junction until you get around the corner.

This is the view before you enter the box -
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4971819,-...3312!8i6656



I agree - no reason not to stop at the edge of the box really. This event had two cars turning into two lanes and only one other car stopped - all very unnecessary and the OP could have squeezed out on the right.
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4101
post Sat, 24 Feb 2018 - 23:50
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what a crime against traffic, look at the chaos caused.
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Pacman01
post Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 10:38
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The OP was clear to pass the ybj other than the estate vehicle a car in front of him didn't move on a green light.

My post should help in drafting an appeal
http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t117460.html


From experience, you are in good hands if stamfordman and pastmybest are helping you biggrin.gif
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D14mond
post Mon, 26 Feb 2018 - 09:47
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Thanks all will use the pacman post to draft an appeal.

I take on board comments about the Google view however that pic is taken with a camera that has a cornering view. If you've driven the route it doesn't look the way the photo appears. Aside from that the traffic lights as you turn are not in sync so it's impossible to know whether they will be green and you can proceed, that's the point I was trying to make. Anyway my OH was driving and he doesn't know the area that well and has a tendency to tailgate. The pics show he was too close to move around the other.

It's by the by just hope I can win the appeal.

This post has been edited by D14mond: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 - 09:57
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Neil B
post Mon, 26 Feb 2018 - 11:08
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I quite liked the pre-edit version of your last post. wink.gif

I think you've got this wrong.

I you had the clear view as I suggested (and still think the human eye more capable than a camera)
then you would have seen space for four vehicles beyond the box. The estate is stationary at red,
leaving three spaces for just the two of you - yourself and the car preceding you.

It follows that you may be considered fully justified in expecting to be able to cross the
box, a matter of only 4m.
Stamf seems to have seen this too? i.e. the scenario unnecessary.
That you didn't is because the preceding car drifted out of lane, straddling two and making it
difficult for you to take the outside space that was otherwise available.
(and, as you've recognised, tailgating didn't help)

The point is a bit damaged by you not appearing to aim for the outside but ---- maybe because
you were taken aback by the drift out of the preceding car.

See what others think.
Don't rush.

---
The de minimis result is evident I agree but borderline. Being well over the 25% guidance
mentioned not all adjudicators would find for you.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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jimbojones123
post Mon, 26 Feb 2018 - 22:46
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I see they got you too! I'm yet to write my appeal for pm pcn, we have 28 days from the date issued, be intrested to see your draft too.
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