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ZIPCAR PCN - Loading Bay (ZipCar Aware?)
ZipCarDriver
post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 22:39
Post #1


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Group: Members
Posts: 17
Joined: 14 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,558



Hi,

I'm hoping you can help me out with some advice in relation to a PCN ZipCar received in relation to their car being parked in a Loading bay.

Date of Notice: 02/01/2018
Date Zipcar informed me they had been issued a NTO: 11/02/2018

Contravention Date & Time: 22/11/2017 09:03
Contravention: 25 - Parked in a loading bay or place during restricted hours without loading

The reason I had parked in this bay at the end of my reservation the day previous (21/11/2017 shortly after 22:00) was due to the CarClub assigned bay being occupied by another vehicle. At that time I contacted ZipCar by phone to obtain advice which I believed I had correctly followed. Once I had parked the vehicle I called them again to notify them of the exact location I had parked, which was directly next to another ZipCar close by parked in it's assigned bay. I ended my communication with Zipcar with them being informed of the location, and myself believing the car was parked properly. Of course, otherwise I would have found another alternative space!

Further to this the bay is not, at least in my opinion, very clearly marked, especially when it is dark and considering all other loading bays, except this one and one other of around 10 in total in the apartment complex, have different road markings / or laid with brick instead of tarmac to signify they are not a residents bay.

So far ZipCar deny that I informed them of where the vehicle was parked, which is an untruth, and I understand that the time period that ZipCar could appeal the NTO has now expired due to their delay/inaction. I would greatly appreciate any advice you can give for next steps.

Please find the NTO, photos I have taken of the location I had parked (taken yesterday), and my communications via email so far attached or below:

Pictures of location (approximately where the Royal Mail van is parked), the Car Club bay to the right is a ZipCar bay other than the one assigned to the car I had parked, which was parked correctly at the time:
https://ibb.co/mwXYmS
https://ibb.co/bBueRS
https://ibb.co/mME2fn
https://ibb.co/ee2YmS
https://ibb.co/iSr4t7

This is how all (but 1 other) loading bay's in the development (and zone) are differentiated from residents spaces. None of the loading spaces have letters on the road:
https://ibb.co/etxG6S


Emails:

From Zipcar - Sat, 10 Feb 2018
Dear [removed],

We have received a Penalty Charge Notice [PCN ID] on [vehicle registration]. Unfortunately, having consulted our records I am sorry to inform you that responsibility has been attributed to your account.

The charge was issued after your booking. Please log into your Zipcar Account and follow the link below to view a copy of the notice which has the full details of the charge. Your booking ran from Nov 21st, 2017, 6:30pm - 10pm. Members are still liable for PCN's that are issued after their booking, as a result of the vehicle being left parked incorrectly.

[LINK REMOVED]

We will pay the charge in five days and will add £130.00 and a £15.00 processing charge to your bill then. The processing charge covers the cost to us of dealing with the large volume of notices that we receive.

If you feel this Notice was issued incorrectly and would like to appeal it, please contact us by responding to this email within this window.

If we do not hear from you the PCN will be paid and settled by Zipcar and the associated charge applied to your account in 5 days time. So if you are satisfied that the PCN has been issued correctly no further action is required by you.

If you have any queries regarding this please do not hesitate to contact us by replying to this email.

Kind regards,

Zipcar Operations Support

From Me - Saturday 11 Feb 2018
Hi,

Thanks for getting in touch.

At the end of my reservation the allocated Car Club Parking bay was filled with a non-car club vehicle.

I followed instructions given by Zipcar to park in any other Newham Council parking bay, which I understood that I had.

Can this PCN be appealed on this basis?

Best,
[removed]


From ZipCar - Mon, 12 Feb 2018

Dear [removed],

Thank you for getting in touch regarding PCN [removed] on [Removed].

It is the member's responsibility to ensure that the vehicle is left parked legally both during and at the end of their booking. The vehicle must be left parked legally within the designated bay at the end of a booking regardless of where the vehicle is picked up from. If this is not possible for any reason the member must call Zipcar and follow the instructions of the operative they speak to.

Unfortunately it does sometimes happen that our bay may be inaccessible. We do however have a contingency procedure agreed with the local authority for each of our locations to make sure that the vehicle can still be left parked legally, as this is still the member's responsibility in these circumstances. With this particular location we are allowed to temporarily park in a residents, shared use, pr unrestricted bay within the borough in these circumstances provided that we contact the council and advise them of this.

It is therefore important that members call us whenever they are unable to park legally within the designated bay and make sure to follow the instructions of the operative that they speak to. In this instance I can see that you did call us and were advise on the above mentioned bays in which it would be safe to park our vehicle but unfortunately you did not call us to advise on the vehicles location and you had parked in a Loading bay as opposed to any of the bays in which it would have been safe to park.

Unfortunately because the vehicle was left parked illegally at the end of your booking, we cannot successfully appeal this PCN and it has been correctly attributed to your account. I'm afraid we will therefore need to pay and apply the associated charge.

I understand that this is a frustrating situation, but we need you to remember that PCNs are not issued by Zipcar, but by the local authority. We try to accommodate our members as best we can, but we, as a company need to recover the costs of these fines from the members responsible.

Kind Regards,

Zipcar Operations Support

From Me - Monday, 12 Feb 2018
Hi Zipcar,

Thanks for your email regarding PCN [removed] on VRM [removed].

You have claimed that I did not call ZipCar to inform you of where I had parked the vehicle at the end of my reservation, this is incorrect.

I initially called Zipcar from my contact number, [removed], at 22:08 on the number 03332409000 advising Zipcar that the designated bay was occupied by another vehicle. This duration of the call was 00:03:35. At this time I then followed the instructions given, as I understood them, and parked in another available Newham bay.

I then called again, as instructed on the previous call, from my contact number, [removed], at 22:14 on the number 03332409000 and fully explained the location I had parked the car. Stating several times this was directly behind/next to another ZipCar vehicle bay. I quoted the vehicle registration of the ZipCar, parked in its assigned bay, I had parked adjacent to. The advisor located the location and street upon which it was parked while I was on the call. To this effect, Zipcar was aware of the location I had parked the car. This call duration was 00:03:55.

At the time I parked the vehicle, and the time I made Zipcar aware of where the vehicle was parked, the vehicle I had parked was not parked illegally and was not subject to any restrictions until 9am the next day. As I had informed and agreed with a Zipcar advisor on the location of where I had parked the vehicle, I fail to understand why Zipcar is now claiming I liable for this charge.

Please check your records as it appears you have made an administration error with the handling of your calls and records.

Best,

[removed]

From ZipCar - Wed, 14 Feb 2018

Dear [removed],

Thank you for replying to my email regarding PCN [removed] on VRM [removed].

Please accept my apologies for my previous email in which I wrongly confirmed that you had not called us at the end of your reservation.

I have searched our records and I can confirm that you have in fact called and spoke to one of our operators. Unfortunately after reviewing the call I must advise that our agent advised you that since you were unable to park our vehicle in its dedicated car club bay you had to find a residents or unrestricted bay within the borough and give us a call with an exact location.

Unfortunately you parked our vehicle in a Loading bay or space during restricted hours without loading and did not call in with the exact location.

Because you did not follow our instructions and parked the vehicle illegally we were not able to assess the situation and act in accordance in order to avoid a PCN.

I am sorry to say that this PCN has been correctly added to your account and that have no valid grounds to send an appeal to the issuing authority.

We will therefore need to pay and add the associated charges to your account. As a good will gesture , I have waived the admin fee for you on this occasion. Please be aware that we will not be able to do this again in future however.

If you have any queries please do not hesitate to get in touch.

Kind Regards

Zipcar Operations Support

From Me - Wed, 14 Feb 2018
Hi Zipcar,

Thanks for confirming that another call did take place. However I must inform you that I did call and advised of the exact location once I had parked the vehicle.

I confirmed the location by giving the location I had parked the vehicle relative to another Zipcar parked in it's dedicated bay, which I had parked directly next to. This was discussed on the call with the advisor.

At the end of this call I was satisfied that I was correctly parked as advised and confirmed by the Zipcar Operator, after confirming the exact location I had parked with them.

On this basis I don't feel the PCN has been correctly added to my account, however, I would also note upon reviewing the location I parked again that the signage that this is a loading bay is likely inadequate and would recommend this PCN is appealed on this basis. The Loading Bay signage is confusing, poorly lit / not easily visible, there is no Loading Bay or differentiating markings on the road and all but one of the other loading bays in the East Village parking zone are brick laid to signify they are not residents parking, whereas the bay where the PCN was issued is not.

Please could you advise how I can assist you in submitting an appeal for this PCN?

Best,

[removed]

From Me - Wed, 14 Feb 2018

Hi Zipcar,

Without prejudice and further to my earlier email, there are further grounds upon which this PCN was not correctly issued by the Parking Officer.

The Observation Policy set out by Newham Council as detailed in the document linked here specifies that contravention 25 should have a observation time of 5 minutes before any PCN should be issued. As the loading bay is only restricted after 09:00 and the PCN was issued at 09:03 this is further grounds for appeal.

Best,

[removed]

Oops - Yes I realise now that that previous email isn't correct, as the Loading bay restriction starts at 8am, not 9am. Made a mess of that.

From Me - Wed, 14 Feb 2018

Hi Zipcar,

Apologies and without prejudice, after re-reviewing the details of the loading bay I can see the restriction starts at 8am and not 9am as I stated in my previous email.

Please dis-regard my previous email.

Best,

[removed]


###

Thanks in advance!

This post has been edited by ZipCarDriver: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 22:42
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post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 22:39
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ZipCarDriver
post Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 19:13
Post #61


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Posts: 17
Joined: 14 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,558



Good idea - thanks
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hcandersen
post Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 22:35
Post #62


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Group: Members
Posts: 35,063
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
From: Woking
Member No.: 21,551



Reply again, although it is getting tedious.

Dear ***
PCN ******
Thank you for your email dated ****.

As I have stated before, only Zipcar may submit representations and these are required to be from Zipcar as the registered keeper, you may not as a matter of law purport to submit representations on behalf of the driver. The law prescribes the simple procedure to be followed by the recipient of a NTO if they wish to allow the driver/hirer to make representations and this is to transfer liability.

I am at a loss to know why you do not follow this prescribed and well-documented procedure.

In any event, I am not prepared to write to the authority until I know that I have freedom to do this unfettered by your so-called procedures and any conditions which you might seek to impose, to do which necessarily means that I must be served with a NTO.

We have exchanged numerous emails on this subject within the last 10 days without making any progress on the matter and I cannot see any benefit in continuing this exchange, in fact the more you delay the further beyond the 28-day period your approach takes you.

I respectfully suggest again that you make representations as you are required to do.

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ZipCarDriver
post Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 22:46
Post #63


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Group: Members
Posts: 17
Joined: 14 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,558



Indeed very tedious, I really appreicate your guidance. I have replied with minor modifications to the above.

fingers crossed

Thanks again!

This post has been edited by ZipCarDriver: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 - 22:46
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ZipCarDriver
post Wed, 28 Feb 2018 - 21:10
Post #64


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Group: Members
Posts: 17
Joined: 14 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,558



Hey! I received a call yesterday and a followup quoted below:

QUOTE
Thank you for taking the time to speak to me this morning and apologies for taking up your time.

As explained over the phone as the registered keepers of the vehicle, the issuing authority will only accept an appeal if sent by us. This is why we have requested that you send your appeal to us so that we can forward it to the issuing authority on your behalf.

When we send an appeal on behalf of a member we also send a cover letter explaining the nature of our business and explaining that one of our members is at fault for the PCN and that the appeal explains the members view of the situation.

For security reason we cannot allow any member to speak in behalf of Zipcar nor can we change the wording of the appeal that we receive from a member.

I believe that in this situation a simple rewording of the appeal can help matters and we will then be able to send the appeal on your behalf.

Should you decide to still try and appeal please do send us an email with your appeal attached as a word document to [email] using your own words and views of this issue.

Please remember to not send your appeal as a reply to this email as unfortunately by sending as a reply we would not be able to receive any attachments.

If we do not receive your appeal until 9am on Thursday the 01/03/2018 we will assume that you no longer want to appeal and will pay and apply the charge to your account then.

Again, thank you very much for taking my call this morning and should you have any further queries please do send us an email to the above mentioned address and we will be more than happy to help you.


Other important (rough) notes from call:
  • Zipcar have already paid the full+penalty and are looking to pass on only the (standard) full charge
  • Anecdotally discussed -> Zipcar used to appeal as suggested in this thread but never had success from councils, therefore they now prefer this approach for their members
  • Zipcar conveyed that their members don't always alert them to a PCN being posted for whatever reason, there are multiple possible, and that's what happened in this case
  • Comments in the above by zipcar I conveyed that I didn't agree as I'd have no standing in law for the authority to consider my comments. This however is their position.


If anyone has time to offer any advice / comments tonight i'd appreciate. Need to get back by 9am if want to take further.

I'm not averse to re-wording the appeal for the authority, to request to re-instate the payment discount... I feel we're just going to go in circles.

THANKS!

This post has been edited by ZipCarDriver: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 - 22:07
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hcandersen
post Wed, 28 Feb 2018 - 22:11
Post #65


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Group: Members
Posts: 35,063
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
From: Woking
Member No.: 21,551



Reply:

You do wish to appeal, but in your own name and you strongly object to Zipcar not transferring liability which they are able but refuse to do.

Given that you believe that you have reasonable grounds for ultimately successfully appealing to an independent adjudicator, then you object to Zipcar making any charge to your account given their overriding contractual obligation to mitigate their, and therefore your, losses which they could and should discharge by transferring liability.

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