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Parking Eye PCN for entering only the number
mic-hael
post Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 00:48
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Probably a quite common problem post... help!!!
Aug last year travelled to Tynemouth parked at the station it was extremely busy.... didn't see the ANPR hidden in the trees ,
parked, paid for 4hrs machine said "ENTER REG NUMBER" which I did.....only the number which in the town I live was the norm for people passing tickets around,
anyway..a few weeks later I receive the PCN for overstaying...
luckily I thought I still had the ticket ..appealed with a copy of ticket,
admitted I was driving....FOOL I know now....appeal overruled
PCN now for incorrect information....appealed again....overruled.....
Popla overruled .
Contacted the Sunday papers he had as much luck as me ...
I didn't receive a letter telling me POPLA had overruled I read it in the Sunday Paper!!.
We are now at the threatening letter stage,
this company has no loss, I paid to park, followed their instructions, if the machine had said " enter full reg "
I wouldn't have too much of an argument but wanting £100 when it cost £1.20p to park is taking the pee,
and what was my crime?......sorry for moaning on,any advice will be gratefully accepted
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post Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 00:48
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Redivi
post Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 03:24
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Dear Sir

Ref ****

I have received your letter dated ****

I am exercising my right to reject the decision of the POPLA assessor
Your are already familiar with the reasons that I dispute that any payment is owed to your company

Yours Faithfully


Your situation is identical to that of this victim
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-...r-fine-13777914

POPLA decides whether the PCN was correctly issued according to the terms and conditions
It's not interested in whether ParkingEye is legally entitled to the payment

ParkingEye does not dispute that you paid the parking fee and left within the paid for time
You only failed to make it easy for them to identify the payment

The last three letters of a registration have enough combinations to identify an individual vehicle in a car park
The requirement to enter the full registration number is, in my view, an unfair term under consumer legislation
It has no purpose other than to increase the possibility of a small mistake, not even the driver's fault, that will give rise to a penalty that far exceeds any legitimate reason

This isn't a case that they will want to take to court
They are much more likely to pass the account to a debt collector

Debt collectors write threatening letters but the threats are empty ones and can be ignored
After about three or four months they give up

It is very possible that ParkingEye can't even take this to court if they want to
Train Operator contracts with parking companies don't usually include the right to take legal action
Tyne and Metro may be the same
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ostell
post Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 10:21
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 03:24) *
Your situation is identical to that of this victim
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-...r-fine-13777914


This probably is the same case, not just identical.

Is it possible to get a photo of the PE signs on the site? Google Maps only have the 2012 street view. And if you have photos of local signs saying that reg number only then that would help

This post has been edited by ostell: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 10:27
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Redivi
post Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 10:36
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I assumed it wasn't the same case

The ECHO describes a motorist that made a mistake with a letter and double-pressed a number
The OP says he only entered the numbers

The Echo case is interesting because it demonstrates a typical finger bounce or button fault by a motorist attempting to comply with the conditions
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bearclaw
post Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 13:48
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If they asked for the number then numbers would be what I gave them as well. The full reg number is correctly called the VRM - the Vehicle Registration Mark.

Wonder how they deal with a foreign plate with cyrillic or arabic script....

Also railway - is tis British rail or the metro? Is this a bylaws case?

This post has been edited by bearclaw: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 13:52
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ostell
post Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 14:18
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It's Metro, took over from British Rail. Other stations have a Byelaws notice in the car park but I don't know here, not that I can remember seeing one. the station is at the end of a road that could be a publicly maintainable road. Could depend on where the OP parked.

Edit: Looking at the road on GSV it has no name, nor is there a reference to it on the North Tyneside street reference so assume it is byelaw land and use an appropriate response and prepare to go the 6 months to time out.

This post has been edited by ostell: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 14:36
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mic-hael
post Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 23:08
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thanks for joining in on my little problem.....Little bit of extra info,
The land is not owned by the Metro owners Nexus anymore it sold the station and land to a company
called Station Developments, I have written to them but haven't got back to me.
I visited today....didn't park in their carpark...are you shocked..
The signage at the entrance states pay and display...no reference to the camera
The signs near the payment machine have a small camera sign and on the instructions on the machine in very small
writing it does say enter full reg, but not on the display
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Churchmouse
post Sun, 18 Feb 2018 - 10:38
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Two obvious grounds for opposing a court claim would be (1) de minimus breach and (2) amount charged is a penalty.

The failure to enter the letters, when the numbers were provided, should be considered a "de minimus" breach of the terms and conditions, which which the court should not be concerning itself. As noted above, enough information was provided for both parties to perform their parts of the contract and enforce their legitimate rights thereunder.

As PE will be quite aware, the UK court decision that changed the law to allow for the enforcement of penalty clauses in contracts did not do so in a blanket fashion. Penalties were allowed only in certain circumstances in which the legitimate business interests of the contracting parties justified it. PE would have a very hard time justifying the imposition of a penalty in a situation such as this, so the prohibition on penalties should still apply. (However, you would need to get a DJ who was willing to consider this argument, rather than just cite Beavis and go to lunch.)

--Churchmouse
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Macapaca
post Sun, 18 Feb 2018 - 14:21
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Parking Eye are one of the more litigious of these money grabbing parking companies but on the basis of 2017 stats the chance of being taken to courtby them is 0.06%. I am sure they will have more compelling cases than this one and so that further reduces your chance of being picked on. Remember that they lose money on every court case! So they pick the ones they are most likely to win just to try to set an example.

My advice is that you have come this far and so why not tough it out? They will pass it to a Debt Collection Agency who have zero authority and so you can ignore anything from them. Sometimes the PPC will threaten court action as a last ditch attempt to spook you into paying and then not go through with it because they will lose money! Their business model is based on the fact that most people are sufficiently spooked by these PCNs, DCAs, letters from solicitors and threats of court action that they eventually cave in and pay before it gets to court. Even if it did go to court you have evidence that you paid and so have a good chance of winning.
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mic-hael
post Sun, 18 Feb 2018 - 22:50
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I would like a bit more info if you don't mind
What is the significance of the 6months timescale?
and if the court proceedings do proceed who will inform me
....don't tell me PE....they only send letters when it suits
Thanks
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Macapaca
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 00:10
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You will receive lots of letters before you get anywhere near court proceedings. The important one to look out for is the formal Letter Before Action (LBA). This precedes the formal Court documents and so you would have plenty warning and time to prepare a defence. The LBA could come from PE direct or they could use a solicitor to send it just to make it appear more formal. This is just to spook people into paying. It has to be issued in accordance with the new Pre-Action Protocol (PAP) which came into force on 1 Oct 2017. The PPC's and their solicitors are currently poor at complying. This is partly because it is new but also because it involves work on their part, which they don't like doing because it costs money!
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ostell
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 08:46
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The 6 months is the time scale they have to bring a prosecution under the byelaws. Get past that time and the4y can do nothing under the byelaws. Unfortunately a civil claim can go on for 6 years.
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kommando
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 15:08
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If your next communication is from a debt collector PE do not plan doing court, nothing to lose waiting for their next move, the cost does not increase as before raising a claim they have to send an LBA where you can pay at that point before the claim is raised.
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mic-hael
post Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 23:17
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Well receive a letter from these nice parking people
......he says sarcastically........its not the threatening letter
I was expecting but as a goodwill gesture I can pay £60 only and that
will be it, payable within 14days or it returns to £100.......
how kind of these people!!!!!!!!!!!
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 09:38
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OK, so direct from PE for now?
Ignore see if you get a debt collection letter
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mic-hael
post Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 15:32
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Yes directly from them
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kommando
post Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 16:07
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£60 suggests they have believe they have a weak case, but not so weak to pass it off to the debt collector. A robust supply confirming they have a weak case and you plan to defend could have it off to the debt collectors.

They offer £60 during court proceedings when they realise they will fail at the hearing as a last chance to get something out of it and if this is rejected will discontinue anyway.
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mic-hael
post Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 23:52
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Thanks....its time to ride the storm
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mic-hael
post Mon, 26 Feb 2018 - 20:34
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My MP has forwarded an email reply from PE....
seems as if they have been mindful and generous towards me
and are trying to cooperate but I am not!!!!!
THEN they have told my MP to advise me to pay...
What a load of BS!!!!!!!
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Jlc
post Mon, 26 Feb 2018 - 20:47
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QUOTE (mic-hael @ Mon, 26 Feb 2018 - 20:34) *
...they have told my MP to advise me to pay...

What else did you expect? They only make money from those that pay - every PCN counts...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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