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Wing Parking Ltd | Brenthousing Partnership, Validity of 'Parking Charge Notice'
BoyFriday
post Wed, 30 Jan 2019 - 19:23
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Hello,

Regarding the following 'Parking Charge Notice':

Front http://tinypic.com/r/212erkj/9
Back http://tinypic.com/r/ohphuh/9

What is the validity of this paperwork?

I have read much of WPL's illegitimacy so I wanted to run this past you oracles of good practice and truth.

Given that this is not a council PCN, what is the recommended process of appeal; or could I simply disregard it?

All advice most welcome!

Yours truly,

BoyFriday

This post has been edited by BoyFriday: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 - 13:54
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post Wed, 30 Jan 2019 - 19:23
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 31 Jan 2019 - 07:48
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You follow the WING PARKING threads you see everywhere
Of course, what you do NOT do, is tell the world who drove
You edit your post to refer to the DRIVER.
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BoyFriday
post Thu, 31 Jan 2019 - 16:05
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Thank you, nosferatu1001, for the reply.

I am struggling to find the thread directly relating to how to deal with WPL in their various stages. I'm dearly hoping it contains an example/template letter that I could make use of..!

FYI Their PCN was issued nine days ago (on the 22.01.19).
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cabbyman
post Thu, 31 Jan 2019 - 17:40
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Type 'Wing Parking' in the search box, top right. Loads of them come up.

As a windscreen ticket, you need to appeal as REGISTERED KEEPER for them to receive it on day 26; no earlier, no later. Hopefully, they will fail to apply for RKs' details from DVLA making a big PoFA fail if they push you as far as POPLA.

Draft your initial appeal and post it here for fine tuning.


--------------------
Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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BoyFriday
post Sun, 3 Feb 2019 - 15:41
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Thank you, cabbyman, for the guidance.

To clarify:
- The driver had parked in a private residents' car park where the driver was not a resident and did not have a permit.
- This car park was not serviced by Pay & Display ticket machines.
- WPL's photos include sign, ticket and front of vehicle

My 'Stage 1' reply draft is ripped from the MSE forum. However, considering the facts above, I am unsure how to adapt it?

Re PCN number 0001XXXXXX

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.:

- If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

- If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.

- in all cases, you must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.

Yours faithfully,
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 11:46
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Well do you have a reason to appeal? So far Im not seeing one.

Edit: im not saying DONT appeal - but it would help to know on what basis the appeal would be. Poor signage? Did the driver really not know what they were supposed to do?
What business did the driver have onsite?
Or was this fly-parking, the very reason these companies get employed in the first place?

This post has been edited by nosferatu1001: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 11:48
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BoyFriday
post Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 18:59
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Good question.

The driver was searching in vain for an available space nearby so that the driver could get to a nearby loo, lest the driver was 'caught short'.

No spaces could be located.

The driver took a chance.

Grounds to appeal?
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 08:59
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So the driver knew it was a permit area? Thats never good. Its why these parking companies are employed - fly parking, ie parking with no permission
OK
What do the signs say?
You're currently playing 20 questions
It gets tedious quickly
Tll the whole story, show the pictures etc you have, in one go. Drip feeding results in people switching off.
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BoyFriday
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 21:12
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The driver needed to park his vehicle briefly to locate a W.C.

There were no available spaces.

The driver parked in the WPL-controlled carpark and illuminated the vehicle's hazard lights (which are not captured by WPL's photographs) before setting off on foot to search for a publicly accessible W.C.

The WPL PCN was issued within the 45 minutes that the driver was absent from the vehicle.

Here is a link to the relevant WPL photographs, including a close-up of the sign (taken by the driver after the fact):
https://imgur.com/a/qWAt5ho?

Their PCN was issued 15 days ago, on 22.01.19.

Please let me know if I've left out any crucial details? I'm not really sure how to approach this one... unsure.gif
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cabbyman
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 21:57
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Dear sirs,

PCN no xxxx VRM xxxx

I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle and advise that I have no liability for your above invoice, which has been passed to me by the driver. For the avoidance of doubt, I am not required to name the driver and will not be doing so.

A site inspection reveals that your unremarkable signage fails the test of prominence as defined by the Supreme Court in Parking Eye v Beavis.

I require you to cancel the charge or, alternatively, provide me with a POPLA code where I will arrange for you to be instructed to cancel it.

Love and kisses


Make a small error in your name or address, eg Grene instead of Green. Send it first class post with certificate of posting from the Post Office Counter. NOT signed for. It needs to be sent to arrive on Day26. No earlier; no later.



--------------------
Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 09:51
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hazard lights dont allow people to just park wherever they want...
Any medical need to find a bathroom? If there is there would be a EQuality Act angle potentially

Otherwise go with the above
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Ollyfrog
post Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 11:47
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QUOTE (BoyFriday @ Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 21:12) *
The driver needed to park his vehicle briefly to locate a W.C.



The WPL PCN was issued within the 45 minutes that the driver was absent from the vehicle.


Seriously? 45 minutes in the loo? Which begs the same question as Nos has asked above re any medical reason.
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BoyFriday
post Thu, 7 Feb 2019 - 16:18
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Thank you, cabbyman. I appreciate your time in posting that content.

It's surprising - and dismaying - how long it takes to find a W.C. whose owner will let you use it.

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The Rookie
post Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 06:31
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The issue here is that the 'powers that be' have tacitly accepted that private parking enforcement is necessary to prevent abusive parking, which yours seems to fit perfectly I'm afraid.

In addition as you don't appear to have found a WC for at least 30 minutes there can be little suggestion you were 'desperate', probably would have been quicker to find a McD or BK and bought something minor while you were there to make a customer entitled to free parking.

Which leaves you fighting it on standard grounds, signage (visibility and content), standing and PoFA compliance.



--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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BoyFriday
post Fri, 8 Feb 2019 - 10:55
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Yes, I accept that this is a difficult one - and I appreciate your frankness.

FWIW, the time absent was not in the finding of the W.C. but in the using of it. Had it been a simple 'tinkle', then a cheeky roadside affair would've sufficed. In the event, an upset stomach requires more time.

Frustratingly, the area - Kilburn High Road - lacks customer carparks.
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BoyFriday
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 12:57
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Keeper will send the appeal kindly forwarded by cabbyman, which is quoted below.

Two questions:
(1) Could the appeal be submitted online, or better by post?
(2) Is Day 26 calculated with the issue date of the PCN being Day 1?

Thank you!

QUOTE
Dear sirs,

PCN no xxxx VRM xxxx

I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle and advise that I have no liability for your above invoice, which has been passed to me by the driver. For the avoidance of doubt, I am not required to name the driver and will not be doing so.

A site inspection reveals that your unremarkable signage fails the test of prominence as defined by the Supreme Court in Parking Eye v Beavis.

I require you to cancel the charge or, alternatively, provide me with a POPLA code where I will arrange for you to be instructed to cancel it.

Love and kisses

Make a small error in your name or address, eg Grene instead of Green. Send it first class post with certificate of posting from the Post Office Counter. NOT signed for. It needs to be sent to arrive on Day26. No earlier; no later.


This post has been edited by BoyFriday: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 14:05
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 13:05
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1) ONline taking screenshots to confirm what was sent and that it WAS sent
2) day 1.
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ostell
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 13:34
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QUOTE (BoyFriday @ Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 12:57) *
Driver will send the appeal kindly forwarded by cabbyman, which is quoted below.

Two questions:
(1) Could the appeal be submitted online, or better by post?
(2) Is Day 26 calculated with the issue date of the PCN being Day 1?

Thank you!


Keeper will send the appeal, edit your post Driver has gone, all from now on is the Keeper.

PCN issue is Day 0

Appeal by whatever you like. If by post then first class and get free certificate of postage from a post office. If on a web page then take screen shots as you go and save them. Alt + Prt Scrn save the active window.

This post has been edited by ostell: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 13:57
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Glacier2
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 13:56
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Wing have form for sending NTKs using the initial appeal details. They like to save the DVLA cash for themselves.
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BoyFriday
post Wed, 13 Feb 2019 - 14:05
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Based on the replies, could I clarify how to calculate Day 26:

QUOTE
PCN issue is Day 0
vs
QUOTE
day 1.
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