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Urgent Please - One Parking Solution PCN Whilst Helping Move in to New Flat?
Wheels
post Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 17:58
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Hi Folks

I need to respond urgently, because in my haste I saw 28days, but it says I must respond within 14 days to keep discounted rate.

My son was moving into his new flat, two people came to help, one with his furniture in a van and the other with the trolley wheels in his car. They both drove into the car park which is for residents only and parked, they looked for somewhere to pay, one being foreign tried to buy a ticket from the electric car charging point! He saw a chap in a high viz jacket and asked if he was the car park attendant, because he wanted to buy a ticket or have permission to park to unload. He replied he was not he was working on the fire regulations, but if he just put a note in his windscreen he was sure the unloading would be okay? However, they could not get out if they wanted to because a large lorry was delivering and had parked in the entrance.

Anyway, they did a relay, one with wheels to the door of the new block and one on the inside going up in the lift. In the time it took to get to the door and back a ticket had been issued. The chap saw a man walking out of the car park, he called to him and asked if he worked for the car park, he said no I work for a private company and kept walking. He asked if he had just issued his ticket, he replied he didn't want any trouble and kept walking, the chap said didn't you see the note in my window, he came back and took a photo of the note and walked away. He shot off to tell my son, because the van had not been given a ticket, by the time he got back down in the lift the van had a ticket too.

The man who gave out the ticket must have been hiding in the wings ready to pounce when nobody was there, he was wearing a shirt and trousers looking like he was an office worker and had no ID, gadget or anything on him to indicate that he was a parking attendant.

My question is this, is this likely to be a successful appeal as it appears from what I have read that things are becoming more difficult as time goes by? Surely somebody is allowed to move into their home without getting a ticket?

Any thoughts gratefully received.

Wheels
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post Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 17:58
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Wheels
post Thu, 27 Sep 2018 - 16:12
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QUOTE (Umkomaas @ Thu, 27 Sep 2018 - 16:35) *
QUOTE (Wheels @ Thu, 27 Sep 2018 - 14:41) *
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 09:45) *
First class, free proof of posting from the Post Office?

Yes


UPDATE

Both ticket appeals have been rejected, exactly the same letter, complete with the name spelling mistakes. What should I do now please?

Did they provide 2 separate POPLA verification codes? If so, use those, developing your POPLA draft appeal, then post them here for critique.

If the codes weren't provided, you send a formal complaint to Steve Clark of the BPA.

steve.c@britishparking.co.uk


Yes 2 separate codes supplied. Do I explain what happened in full, because I only sent in Cabbyman's letter about inadequate signage?

W
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 27 Sep 2018 - 16:15
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You dont "explain what happened in full"

You develop an appeal which shows the charge should not have been issued, ONE point of which is around signage.

You were told to expect rejection - and your research will have told you this! - so you need to have been researching POPLA appeals already.

Show us your draft appeal.
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Wheels
post Thu, 27 Sep 2018 - 16:35
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 27 Sep 2018 - 17:15) *
You dont "explain what happened in full"

You develop an appeal which shows the charge should not have been issued, ONE point of which is around signage.

You were told to expect rejection - and your research will have told you this! - so you need to have been researching POPLA appeals already.

Show us your draft appeal.

Sorry to be obtuse, but yes I was expecting rejection and to appeal, but I have a brain injury and have difficulty keeping track of things, especially what I have read, where I have researched and then it all gets muddled in my head. So apologies for that.
wacko.gif

QUOTE (Wheels @ Thu, 27 Sep 2018 - 17:33) *
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 27 Sep 2018 - 17:15) *
You dont "explain what happened in full"

You develop an appeal which shows the charge should not have been issued, ONE point of which is around signage.

You were told to expect rejection - and your research will have told you this! - so you need to have been researching POPLA appeals already.

Show us your draft appeal.

Sorry to be obtuse, but yes I was expecting rejection and to appeal, but I have a brain injury and have difficulty keeping track of things, especially what I have read, where I have researched and then it all gets muddled in my head. So apologies for that.
wacko.gif



Cant even work this technical posting correctly!
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 28 Sep 2018 - 01:09
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No proble, but this still needs to be something you develop
I'd guess in stages - one point at a time
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Wheels
post Fri, 28 Sep 2018 - 09:52
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Fri, 28 Sep 2018 - 02:09) *
No proble, but this still needs to be something you develop
I'd guess in stages - one point at a time


Actually I don't know where to start, where do I find the list of issues I can use for my argument, without having to read reams of law that I will not be able to retain, will overload my brain & render it unable to do anything constructive? There was some signage about zones, but on the one hand a person whose first language is not English trying to make sense and actually was trying to buy a parking ticket from the electric car charging point, asking for help & was told to put a note in the window, which he did, in phonetic pigeon English, didn't expect someone to be hiding & sneak out & ticket whilst he wheeled furniture to the door, on the other hand, a person is moving in to their new home, they expect to be able to have time to unload their furniture from a van. To add to that a huge lorry was delivering new furniture & had blocked the entrance, so they couldn't exit if they wanted to? I don't know how find & apply popla to this situation?

Any suggestion gratefully received thank you.

Wheels
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 28 Sep 2018 - 10:41
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Youre not being asked to find reams of case law

There are a number of POPLA appeals on this forum.

Try doing a search for "unloading a vehicle" - in the search bar at the bottom left.
If yo uare able to find someone to help you at your end?
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ostell
post Fri, 28 Sep 2018 - 11:46
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Have a look at Jopson v Homeguard.
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Wheels
post Sun, 30 Sep 2018 - 20:20
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QUOTE (ostell @ Fri, 28 Sep 2018 - 12:46) *
Have a look at Jopson v Homeguard.


Thank you, I did look at that at the beginning, but much like reading a book, I can't remember what was on the previous page at times, the more complex, the worse it is. 🙄
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 11:14
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Have you been able to find anyone to assist your end?

We dont have the time to create a bespokje defence for everyone. there are not enough of us to do it, and frankly, thi s is YOUR defence yo have to be able to understand and present in court.

You need to engage someone to help you. Friend, family meeting?
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Wheels
post Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 21:48
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 1 Oct 2018 - 12:14) *
Have you been able to find anyone to assist your end?

We dont have the time to create a bespokje defence for everyone. there are not enough of us to do it, and frankly, thi s is YOUR defence yo have to be able to understand and present in court.

You need to engage someone to help you. Friend, family meeting?


Hi, no nobody my end, I'm the one everybody expects to sort things out, hence why I am overwhelmed and stressed out, which makes my brain even less likely to work. Some days my brain works a bit, sometimes it doesn't, I have to grab the moment when it's there and run with it. Just haven't had the moment yet. It makes me so mad, I used to have a photographic memory and be a left brain mathematician and now sometimes I can't even do two plus two! I'm better without the stress of a deadline, because then I panic and my brain short circuits all together. Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

W
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 09:22
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Can you please please please

Go post on MSE forum -> parking sub forum
Give a link back here
You need as many eyes on this as possible.

Works a killer right now, i cant assist as much as you clearly need.
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Wheels
post Wed, 3 Oct 2018 - 14:29
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 2 Oct 2018 - 10:22) *
Can you please please please

Go post on MSE forum -> parking sub forum
Give a link back here
You need as many eyes on this as possible.

Works a killer right now, i cant assist as much as you clearly need.



Thank you, I have posted there, but as a newbie I can't post a link, so I put the title.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 4 Oct 2018 - 07:00
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You cna instead break the link - copy and paste as normal but replace "http" with "hxxp" - the forum then will allow you to post, and a regular can look at it.

I'll pop over now, and create this link, but it lets you know how to post links WHEN you need to smile.gif

OK issue - Ive been to page three of the parking sub forum and I cant find your thread

Did you post in this forum: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumd...=desc#topofpage ?
If so:
1) paste a link HERE so I can find it
OR
2) Tell us your username overthere
OR
3) Tell us your thread title

I'll stick a shout onto a private group pointing them this way.

The MSE forum is VERY fast moving, your thread WILL sink to page 2 very quickly and you cannot really afford to let it get there.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 4 Oct 2018 - 07:33
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OK the group Im on is very good
Hopefully you have a message now offering help
That person is very trustworthy - first name "S" assuming they identify themselves there!
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Wheels
post Thu, 4 Oct 2018 - 09:39
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 4 Oct 2018 - 08:33) *
OK the group Im on is very good
Hopefully you have a message now offering help
That person is very trustworthy - first name "S" assuming they identify themselves there!



Yes thank you so much, I’m preparing details now.

The MSE title is Popla appeal help please and my username is InaHaze, much like I feel.

I hope this is the link?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...d.php?t=5904032

http://a68.tinypic.com/23ixn2g.jpg
http://a65.tinypic.com/214qi9.jpg
http://a66.tinypic.com/8yyz5i.jpg

Fingers crossed the links work?!
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 4 Oct 2018 - 10:42
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This is one area where there is a distinciton you need to have in your mind

IF the driver has not been identified, then POFA is your "go to" - they have no held the keeper liable, as they have not complied. It will need to be explained why

You could then try a second argument, which is that he vehicle was never parked, and therefore none of the parking signs applied - the vehicle was being usedfor loading /unloading, an entirely distinct act which is recognised as such in law; you are likely aware that you cannot PARK, for any length of time, on a double yellow line *however* you may load / unload for up to 20 minutes (continuous and based on necessity - so furniture is a good reason, a bag of shopping isnt) - this is on PUBLIC roads, but of course you can draw paralllels here

The Appeal court case of Homeguard V Jopson has been pointed out to you; this was the same situaiotn, a flat being moved into. the judge said there was no way life in such flats would be tenable if the PPC could ban people from loading and unloading, and htat also he agreed that unloading is NOT parking.
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Wheels
post Thu, 4 Oct 2018 - 12:33
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 4 Oct 2018 - 11:42) *
This is one area where there is a distinciton you need to have in your mind

IF the driver has not been identified, then POFA is your "go to" - they have no held the keeper liable, as they have not complied. It will need to be explained why

You could then try a second argument, which is that he vehicle was never parked, and therefore none of the parking signs applied - the vehicle was being usedfor loading /unloading, an entirely distinct act which is recognised as such in law; you are likely aware that you cannot PARK, for any length of time, on a double yellow line *however* you may load / unload for up to 20 minutes (continuous and based on necessity - so furniture is a good reason, a bag of shopping isnt) - this is on PUBLIC roads, but of course you can draw paralllels here

The Appeal court case of Homeguard V Jopson has been pointed out to you; this was the same situaiotn, a flat being moved into. the judge said there was no way life in such flats would be tenable if the PPC could ban people from loading and unloading, and htat also he agreed that unloading is NOT parking.



That sounds promising? The appeal rejection letters don’t mention Pofa, only Popla & say they don’t participate in the ombudsman alternative resolution scheme?
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 4 Oct 2018 - 13:23
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Its likely they will only have referenced POFA in the Notice to Keeper - nowhere else
The rejection letter doesnt need to mention it.

The reference to POPLA is saying you have to use POPLA as an appeals service - this has nothing to do with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, POFA for short.

POFA was passed in 2012 and it banned clamping, but introduced a *crazy* concept called Keeper liability. This means the keeper can be liable for something a driver did - parking charges on private land. However in order to actually claim that right, the parking company has strict rules to follow, and a surprising number of parking companies dont follow them - either they cant, or dont bother as they try other legal tricks instead.

From memory ONE of the companies that tries a little, but doesnt get it right, is your one - OPS. But please take thehelp there - the person at MSE you are in contact with is very hot on this topic, way better than me!
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Wheels
post Thu, 4 Oct 2018 - 21:29
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 4 Oct 2018 - 14:23) *
Its likely they will only have referenced POFA in the Notice to Keeper - nowhere else
The rejection letter doesnt need to mention it.

The reference to POPLA is saying you have to use POPLA as an appeals service - this has nothing to do with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, POFA for short.

POFA was passed in 2012 and it banned clamping, but introduced a *crazy* concept called Keeper liability. This means the keeper can be liable for something a driver did - parking charges on private land. However in order to actually claim that right, the parking company has strict rules to follow, and a surprising number of parking companies dont follow them - either they cant, or dont bother as they try other legal tricks instead.

From memory ONE of the companies that tries a little, but doesnt get it right, is your one - OPS. But please take thehelp there - the person at MSE you are in contact with is very hot on this topic, way better than me!



Thank you nosferatu, that is clearer, yes we are communicating so fingers crossed.
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Wheels
post Tue, 30 Oct 2018 - 15:48
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QUOTE (Wheels @ Thu, 4 Oct 2018 - 22:29) *
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 4 Oct 2018 - 14:23) *
Its likely they will only have referenced POFA in the Notice to Keeper - nowhere else
The rejection letter doesnt need to mention it.

The reference to POPLA is saying you have to use POPLA as an appeals service - this has nothing to do with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, POFA for short.

POFA was passed in 2012 and it banned clamping, but introduced a *crazy* concept called Keeper liability. This means the keeper can be liable for something a driver did - parking charges on private land. However in order to actually claim that right, the parking company has strict rules to follow, and a surprising number of parking companies dont follow them - either they cant, or dont bother as they try other legal tricks instead.

From memory ONE of the companies that tries a little, but doesnt get it right, is your one - OPS. But please take thehelp there - the person at MSE you are in contact with is very hot on this topic, way better than me!



Thank you nosferatu, that is clearer, yes we are communicating so fingers crossed.


YIPPEE!!! Thanks for all yours & everyone’s help along the way & a massive thank you to your contact nosferatu from MSE who did the two appeals, WE WON THEM BOTH!! Yay!

Wheels
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