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Doncaster Council PCN, Re-parked in the same zone
Lola99
post Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 15:01
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Hi everyone,

I would like to ask if there's any chance of successfully appealing this ticket? It was issued to my father's carer whilst she was in hospital with him waiting for surgery. I was there too in my own car, parked in a separate car park using his disabled badge. Basically there are several parking bays( like mini laybys) on the main road outside the hospital, where you can park for 3 hours for free, but then can't return within a specified time. My father's operation was delayed and he couldn't be left alone due to having a brain injury, Parkinson's and sever confusion/ anxiety. His carer moved her car from the initial bay as the 3 hour's time limit was approaching. She drove round looking for a new place to park, including the hospital car parks which were all full. She then returned to the parking bays on the road, but parked in a different bay to the one before, thinking this was classed as a separate zone.

I've tried researching for possible appeal reasons, I noticed is the colour is noted as Silver on the PCN whereas her car is grey. If that isn't an option would it be worth mentioning Dad's disabilities, as a few things went wrong in hospital and we were having a traumatic time ? I'll try to attach a picture of the PCN in a separate post. Thanks in advance to anyone who may advise.
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post Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 15:01
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stamfordman
post Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 15:18
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If the bay signs don't specify anything and there are no zone signs concerning a limit then each bay is a separate entity so it would appear the PCN is not valid.

Post the PCN and also see if the council's pics are online. Leave in all details including location on PCN bar car reg and PCN number.

Use a site such as Flickr for pics. Choosing BBCode links embeds the pics here.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 15:36
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DJ Lexy
post Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 16:19
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Car colour isn't a required field, so it doesn't have to be right. Plus, let's be honest, grey and silver are the same when it comes to car colours anyway.

Post a Google Street View link to the parking bays and we'll take a look at the bays.
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Lola99
post Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 16:39
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Thanks for your replies. Here's a link to the Google street view: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Doncast...1.1096038?dcr=0

I zoomed in on the parking sign and it just states no return within 2 hours, but doesn't give any further detail.

I'm struggling to get the pic of the PCN on but will try what you've advised, thanks.

This post has been edited by Lola99: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 16:42
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stamfordman
post Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 17:04
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If you take pics of the PCN with your smartphone (both sides) email them to me at marcb@csi.com and I'll edit and post them.

The bay signs say 3 hours no return within 4 hours, I think. I expect the council will say it has an order for the area by the hospital but it needs to designate the bays as a zone.
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 17:10
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Two bays, one either side of the entrance. If the two parking events were one in each of the bays then no contravention occurs


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Lola99
post Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 18:00
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Stamfordman I've just emailed you pics now, thank you so much.

PASTMYBEST I've just verified with the carer, she was parked in the first bay, then parked in the second one afterwards. Thanks for the clarification.
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stamfordman
post Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 18:39
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I've checked but there doesn't seem to be any pics on Doncaster's site.

Note that the timing of the PCN is not long after the 3 hours expired and I expect the CEO was watching out for reparking.





This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 18:45
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stamfordman
post Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 19:03
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Also you need to slap in a challenge by tomorrow I think as the discount period is about to run out. Do it online.

Simple say "I wish to challenge this PCN because I did not repark in the same parking place. I parked in a different parking place in Armthorpe Road."

There is no zone there so you can ignore that.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 19:05
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 19:20
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today is the last day to preserve the discount, if it is re offered.

Dear Mr parking I would challenge PCN number xxxxxx issued to my vehicle VRM aa 12 bcd In that the cited contravention did not occur.

I parked my car in the bay to the left/right(delete whichever) of the hospital entrance at **.** at **.** I removed it and then parked in an entirely different bay to the left/right of the hospital entrance.

I did not re park in the same bay. I trust therefore I can expect your notification of cancellation of the PCN, soonest.

If for ant reason you disagree with this assertion, provide the legal basis for doing so. This would include the CEO notes and photographs and also the TMO designating this area a parking zone and a map showing the location of the zone entry signs

Hugs and kisses

e mail this or something like tonight CC yourself so you have a copy and set for a mail reciept


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Lola99
post Wed, 25 Oct 2017 - 19:31
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I'll get the appeal in tonight before midnight to be on the safe side. The council will extend the reduced payment time until they make their decision.

I've just read online that it's a ticketing blackspot outside the hospital. I've seen pairs of wardens marching around and waiting near cars for them to go over their limits, not sure they're supposed to do that?

You're right about the times, the original space was vacated at around 15:00 and she returned around 15:12. The warden was lurking at the bays on the other side of the road.

Thanks Stamford man and everyone else for your help, I'll update you with the decision as soon as I hear back from them.
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hcandersen
post Fri, 27 Oct 2017 - 10:54
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As an aside, as it appears that you did not bring your father to the hospital then your use of his BB was in anticipation of taking him home?
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Lola99
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 16:38
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Hi guys, sorry for the late update. I had intended to return this week to let you know that we heard nothing back from DMBC, so assumed by now they'd decided to take no further action. Then lo and behold my Dad's carer has received a letter from them this week. She originally responded to the ticket as advised by Pastmybest in the post above, and heard nothing back until now. A copy of their reply is attached, but they're demanding the full £50 fine now.

Attached Image


hcanderson - sorry I didn't see your post before today. I did take my father to the hospital and anticipated bringing him home too. His carer came along as an additional person to help as I struggle to manage him alone now and can't leave him unattended

This post has been edited by Lola99: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 17:00
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stamfordman
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 16:48
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Do you want to email me the reply and I'll post it.
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Lola99
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 16:50
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Hi stamfordman, hope you're good. I've managed to post it thanks, was just struggling to work it how to do it and you beat me to it. Thanks.

Forgot to add, Dad's carer has been trying to phone the council for the past 2 days about this but she's getting no answer.
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stamfordman
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 16:58
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So that's a notice to owner and carer did not get a letter rejecting the challenge.

So now you must make a formal appeal, and you point out that you ha don reply to the challenge.*

* Do you have your challenge and how did you send it - any receipt if by email or a screenshot?

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 16:58
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Lola99
post Thu, 8 Feb 2018 - 17:02
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Yes I have the challenge and received an email acknowledgement of it. I'll post it below shortly.
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Lola99
post Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 19:04
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Sorry guys for the delay, here's the body of the original appeal I sent them:

Dear Sir/ Madam


I would challenge PCN number DN41918XXX issued to my vehicle XXXXXXX in that the cited contravention did not occur.

I parked my car in the bay to the left of the hospital entrance at 12:00. I removed it and then parked in an entirely different bay to the right of the hospital entrance after discovering there were no available spaces in the nearby hospital car parks.

I did not re park in the same bay. I trust therefore I can expect your notification of cancellation of the PCN, soonest.

If for any reason you disagree with this assertion, please provide the legal basis for doing so. This would include the CEO notes and photographs and also the TMO designating this area a parking zone and a map showing the location of the zone entry signs.


Yours faithfully

XXXX
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 19:51
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I'll draft you a representation over the weekend or early next week. You need to respond by the 05/03/18 so no rush just yet


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stamfordman
post Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 21:10
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The unanswered challenge is more or less OK I reckon.
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