PCN - 32D - Failing to drive in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign |
PCN - 32D - Failing to drive in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign |
Tue, 26 May 2020 - 20:06
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 62 Joined: 20 Feb 2012 Member No.: 53,257 |
Hi, I got a ticket for driving down a bus only street. The signage is unclear and you will see there is no demarcation that straight ahead of the junction is bus only.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Eup7rU4krpN1AyiJ7 There was a bus that went in front of me going the same way so view also hampered. I already sent an appeal which they've rejected where I questioned the signage they were referring to as unclear in PCN. As far as I could see I followed rectangular blue signs ordering to go straight ahead. The response was the sign located far away near Oakfield Rd. Incidentally I did not pass this sign as I came from Station Road on the left. https://www.dropbox.com/s/wqynkoquionfcmb/2...143848.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/95jhyjzweyozfww/2...150039.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/1b7ouycq7bp76nb/2...143650.jpg?dl=0 I've written an appeal for adjudication but any help much appreciated!! |
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Tue, 26 May 2020 - 20:06
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Tue, 26 May 2020 - 20:18
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 7,235 Joined: 5 Jan 2007 From: England Member No.: 9,919 |
Thats possilbly the worst signage ive seen in a long time.
So on the left side of the (single carriage) road is a straight ahead arrow and on the right side is a turn right arrow !! |
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Tue, 26 May 2020 - 20:28
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 62 Joined: 20 Feb 2012 Member No.: 53,257 |
Thats possilbly the worst signage ive seen in a long time. So on the left side of the (single carriage) road is a straight ahead arrow and on the right side is a turn right arrow !! Exactly MickR!! Looks like someone else got nailed there: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=131564 Cars used to be able to drive down this road but Council have changed now. Also bus lane at traffic lights has a sign under saying "end of bus lane"!! This post has been edited by nelly30: Tue, 26 May 2020 - 20:32 |
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Wed, 27 May 2020 - 09:59
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Show us your draft appeal and the council photos also get and post the video. There is a flaw in the NoR that might win on its own
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 27 May 2020 - 13:43
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Also the blue sign in question is not a section 36 sign when incorporated into a traffic light assembly (See TSGDR schedule 14, Part 2 item 42) so the council can only pursue a breach of the TMO, it cannot pursue a breach of the sign alone.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Wed, 27 May 2020 - 14:54
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 62 Joined: 20 Feb 2012 Member No.: 53,257 |
Show us your draft appeal and the council photos also get and post the video. There is a flaw in the NoR that might win on its own Please see below: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5mqx7uhefm6ixm9/P...202020.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/zr7h5z5v8dh5i9k/P...appeal.pdf?dl=0 Also the blue sign in question is not a section 36 sign when incorporated into a traffic light assembly (See TSGDR schedule 14, Part 2 item 42) so the council can only pursue a breach of the TMO, it cannot pursue a breach of the sign alone. Thank you cp8759 |
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Wed, 27 May 2020 - 15:13
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
IMO your appeal needs to be rewritten, it contains pertinent points but waffles and is a bit disjointed. There are also the points identified by CP and myself to incorporate. I have a few other on the go ATM but will help if you would like. Your appeal needs to be registers by the 15th of June so there is a bit of time yet
Bump the thread if you have heard nothing from me by this time next week. -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 27 May 2020 - 16:25
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I agree with PMB, you should take up his offer of writing an appeal for you.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Wed, 27 May 2020 - 18:50
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 62 Joined: 20 Feb 2012 Member No.: 53,257 |
Thank you very much!
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Wed, 3 Jun 2020 - 08:16
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 62 Joined: 20 Feb 2012 Member No.: 53,257 |
Bump
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Wed, 3 Jun 2020 - 09:55
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Bump don't worry you are on my list. You have until the 15th to register your appeal -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Thu, 11 Jun 2020 - 15:05
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Bump don't worry you are on my list. You have until the 15th to register your appeal doing today -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sat, 13 Jun 2020 - 07:30
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 62 Joined: 20 Feb 2012 Member No.: 53,257 |
Thank you!
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Sat, 13 Jun 2020 - 10:20
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,065 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
OP, I'm confused by your account and defence.
The GSV shows clearly that at the lights you were permitted to be in the right hand lane only unless you qualify as a 'bus'. In that lane there is a road marking (which is specified in the regs) which states clearly that all vehicles must turn right. You didn't. I've no idea where references to single carriageway road come from in this thread. So, where were you when you crossed the white line at the lights, in the right-hand of the lanes or the left? Your argument regarding the - presumably- white on blue rectangular one-way sign situated on the far side of the junction is irrelevant unless you can show that this was a repeater for a sign prior to the junction and prior to the mandatory requirement to turn right conveyed by the road marking. So, let's be clear. Frankly, IMO your argument is stronger if you were actually in the bus lane at the lights, but we haven't seen the video and so don't know. But if you were in the right-hand lane then I think you would fail as regards the signs being inadequate(signs in the plural, the road marking and the white arrow on blue circle). After all you would have approached the junction in the left-hand lane - if indeed your intention was to go straight ahead- and by the time you were moved to the right by the bus lane road markings you would have had a clear view of the nearer of the blue signs signifying that you must turn right. You would then have moved into a lane with a right-turn only road marking and then.....decided to pull over to the left and drive straight on. Does the video show any different? If not, then you'd better hope that the procedural argument regarding the contravention grounds wins the day. |
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Sat, 13 Jun 2020 - 11:19
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
HCA I am not confused with the defence and as the appeal needs be registered by Monday, that is perhaps as well
Nelly I will post a draft in a couple of hours Lots of things though unavoidable have been diverting me over the last week or so -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sat, 13 Jun 2020 - 11:42
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 62 Joined: 20 Feb 2012 Member No.: 53,257 |
Thank you for input. I cannot see link for video but I also know visibility was heavily reduced as a bus drove directly ahead.
I have revisited site and layout/signage is very ambiguous. I waited at lights this time and white straight arrow is "in your face" as driver. @Pastmybest - no problem! |
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Sat, 13 Jun 2020 - 13:25
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Nelly fill in the relevant bits at the top convert to PDF then you can upload it to the tribunal portal when registering your appeal. This must be by Monday the 15th
https://1drv.ms/w/s!AtBHPhdJdppVzS6uPmo...BUSnAA?e=lKbW9k -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sat, 13 Jun 2020 - 13:56
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,065 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
I waited at lights this time and white straight arrow is "in your face" as driver.
In what lane? You could see the 'right turn only' road marking? You know its meaning? Good on PMB, but I'm still confused because the OP won't say which lane of two they were in at the lights. And if in the right, what makes you think you could drive straight ahead, irrespective of signs the other side of lights(the other side of the moon in traffic terms)? If you didn't see the road marking, that's an issue. But let's have what happened eh, because I'm convinced this could only assist, otherwise if your defence suggests something which the video - which we haven't seen - shows to be false then you would lose any adj sympathy. This post has been edited by hcandersen: Sat, 13 Jun 2020 - 13:59 |
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Sat, 13 Jun 2020 - 19:16
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
I waited at lights this time and white straight arrow is "in your face" as driver. In what lane? You could see the 'right turn only' road marking? You know its meaning? Good on PMB, but I'm still confused because the OP won't say which lane of two they were in at the lights. And if in the right, what makes you think you could drive straight ahead, irrespective of signs the other side of lights(the other side of the moon in traffic terms)? If you didn't see the road marking, that's an issue. But let's have what happened eh, because I'm convinced this could only assist, otherwise if your defence suggests something which the video - which we haven't seen - shows to be false then you would lose any adj sympathy. I'm not confused because the photo on the PCN shows the OP in the RHL so my draft reflects this ( even if I don't come right out and say it) -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Sat, 13 Jun 2020 - 19:32
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,065 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
Perhaps the OP should answer and not leave you in limbo!
This post has been edited by hcandersen: Sat, 13 Jun 2020 - 19:33 |
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