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Appealed a PCN, 2 Months later I receive Charge Cert. Without Notice of Rejection, Received ZERO correspondence for more than 2 months!
Frustratedmum
post Tue, 7 Jan 2020 - 13:33
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Hi all,

Was wondering if anyone has some knowledge on this, as I’ve been unable to find concrete information from a search.

Back in November I received a PCN (NtO) in the mail (from Islington council) for a ‘moving contravention’. On November 20th I challenged it via email. I received an instant automated reply saying that they would respond within 20 working days and that they would notify me via email if they were unable to respond within that timeframe. I have as of yet (7th Jan) not received any response from them. I also never received stated email about any response delay.

Upon logging in to the ‘Pay PCN’ portal it still shows the reduced amount of £65, indicating that the reduced amount is still on hold for the moment.

Does the council have a legal timeframe by which they need to respond to a challenge?

I’d like to think they’ve forgotten about me, but I hope I’m not proven wrong. 😊
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post Tue, 7 Jan 2020 - 13:33
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hcandersen
post Mon, 23 Mar 2020 - 11:44
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Until the OP's last post, possibly.

But not now IMO.

We are all treading new ground.

The link between TEC and the authority is central to the period for submitting a SD in time - a matter that the OP has now raised as a potential concern - because if TEC agree, who's going to tell the authority and therefore their agents?

OP, phone TEC.
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Neil B
post Mon, 23 Mar 2020 - 19:52
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Mon, 23 Mar 2020 - 08:41) *
@Neil B, They know when the debt was registered.


Agreed, but is this all they know?

And the link between the date of registration and the latest date by which a witness statement or equivalent must be submitted pursuant to an OfR having been served is?

You are just going over all ground I've explained many times before. As PMB's post, it's not helpful.

QUOTE (Frustratedmum @ Sun, 22 Mar 2020 - 20:24) *
I understand that I need to get the SD signed by a solicitor or CC, both of which will prove difficult for me due to the current Coronavirus situation.

Anyone know how I should go about this? Who do I contact? Can I get the 21 day deadline extended?

Normally, the only way to get an extension is to complete an additional form - which the council can oppose. Not a good idea.
As it stands, if you complete the form, reset is automatic.
Only TEC can tell you if any special arrangements have been put in place due to the current situation. I doubt that (yet).

I think you'll probably be able to find a solicitor for about £8.

If you phone TEC I think they'll tell you your current deadline is 16th March.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Neil B
post Tue, 24 Mar 2020 - 00:20
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QUOTE (Frustratedmum @ Sun, 22 Mar 2020 - 20:24) *
I understand that I need to get the SD signed by a solicitor or CC, both of which will prove difficult for me due to the current Coronavirus situation.

Anyone know how I should go about this? Who do I contact?

Perhaps just phone a solicitor and see what they suggest?
It has to be in person, by the RK, but only takes a few minutes.

I think I once heard that this crew do it for a fiver >
https://edwardsduthieshamash.co.uk/wanstead-office/

I can only strongly recommend you don't go beyond whatever deadline TEC advise you (unless they've already made special
arrangements).


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Frustratedmum
post Mon, 6 Apr 2020 - 15:57
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Excuse my ignorance, (I've never dealt with something like this before). Google shows quite a few County Courts in my area. Can I just show up at any of them to make a SD or does it need to be a CC that deals with specific matters like this?
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Incandescent
post Mon, 6 Apr 2020 - 16:59
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QUOTE (Frustratedmum @ Mon, 6 Apr 2020 - 16:57) *
Excuse my ignorance, (I've never dealt with something like this before). Google shows quite a few County Courts in my area. Can I just show up at any of them to make a SD or does it need to be a CC that deals with specific matters like this?

No, any of them should deal with your SD, and for your info, so do magistrates courts. You need to check which courts are open, though, during this coronavirus emergency.
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Frustratedmum
post Mon, 6 Apr 2020 - 19:01
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Mon, 6 Apr 2020 - 17:59) *
QUOTE (Frustratedmum @ Mon, 6 Apr 2020 - 16:57) *
Excuse my ignorance, (I've never dealt with something like this before). Google shows quite a few County Courts in my area. Can I just show up at any of them to make a SD or does it need to be a CC that deals with specific matters like this?

No, any of them should deal with your SD, and for your info, so do magistrates courts. You need to check which courts are open, though, during this coronavirus emergency.


Thanks Incandescent.
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Frustratedmum
post Tue, 7 Apr 2020 - 14:34
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UPDATE:

I visited my local CC (Barnet CC) this morning and they said the are closed to the public. Security guard at the door was unable to advise where I can get the SD witnessed. I called the Barnet CC phone number to see if they can advise and there was no answer.

I have spoken to both Hendon and Willseden Magistrates court over the phone, and both have advised that they do NOT deal with these types of Statutory Declarations, contrary to what is stated on the SD form. (and they are also closed to the general public)

Being unable to get through to any County Courts on the phone, I am kind of stuck and have no idea how to proceed. I have a deadline to meet (16th) but would rather get it sorted as soon as possible, which is proving very difficult.


I will keep trying to get through to the CC's but if anyone here has advice/experience, I would really appreciate if you can help.
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Incandescent
post Tue, 7 Apr 2020 - 17:16
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QUOTE (Frustratedmum @ Tue, 7 Apr 2020 - 15:34) *
UPDATE:

I visited my local CC (Barnet CC) this morning and they said the are closed to the public. Security guard at the door was unable to advise where I can get the SD witnessed. I called the Barnet CC phone number to see if they can advise and there was no answer.

I have spoken to both Hendon and Willseden Magistrates court over the phone, and both have advised that they do NOT deal with these types of Statutory Declarations, contrary to what is stated on the SD form. (and they are also closed to the general public)

Being unable to get through to any County Courts on the phone, I am kind of stuck and have no idea how to proceed. I have a deadline to meet (16th) but would rather get it sorted as soon as possible, which is proving very difficult.


I will keep trying to get through to the CC's but if anyone here has advice/experience, I would really appreciate if you can help.

Solicitor ?
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Frustratedmum
post Wed, 8 Apr 2020 - 00:16
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Tue, 7 Apr 2020 - 18:16) *
QUOTE (Frustratedmum @ Tue, 7 Apr 2020 - 15:34) *
UPDATE:

I visited my local CC (Barnet CC) this morning and they said the are closed to the public. Security guard at the door was unable to advise where I can get the SD witnessed. I called the Barnet CC phone number to see if they can advise and there was no answer.

I have spoken to both Hendon and Willseden Magistrates court over the phone, and both have advised that they do NOT deal with these types of Statutory Declarations, contrary to what is stated on the SD form. (and they are also closed to the general public)

Being unable to get through to any County Courts on the phone, I am kind of stuck and have no idea how to proceed. I have a deadline to meet (16th) but would rather get it sorted as soon as possible, which is proving very difficult.


I will keep trying to get through to the CC's but if anyone here has advice/experience, I would really appreciate if you can help.

Solicitor ?

So far the ones I've tried arre closed... They probably don't consider themselves essential workers.
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 8 Apr 2020 - 00:38
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Contact TEC I read somewhere that they will forgo the need for the statement to by sworn in the present circumstances tel:0300 123 1059


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cp8759
post Thu, 9 Apr 2020 - 11:45
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 8 Apr 2020 - 01:38) *
Contact TEC I read somewhere that they will forgo the need for the statement to by sworn in the present circumstances tel:0300 123 1059

Under "normal" circumstances I'd say just go to the magistrates' court and I'd give you the information needed to get past the ignorant statement from the not legally trained person you spoke to on the phone, but under present circumstances and for the sake of looking after your own health and the health of others, I recommend you call TEC in the first instance.


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Frustratedmum
post Tue, 14 Apr 2020 - 15:21
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Thanks guys. They've confirmed to me over the phone that I do not need to get it witnessed.

Question: On the SD form it shows the 3 possible reasons for making an SD, of which I must select one. (so far, so good.)
Right beneath those 3 options it says "My reasons are: (give full details)" with a blank box provided to fill in further details. My question is, being that I have already selected the reason for making an SD by ticking the correct box above, am I still supposed to fill in this blank box, and if so what am I supposed to write?

This post has been edited by Frustratedmum: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 - 15:23
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Incandescent
post Tue, 14 Apr 2020 - 17:32
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AFAIK you just tick the box. The "reasons" box is for when the form is submitted "Out-of-Time". You are not in this situation.
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Frustratedmum
post Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 12:54
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UPDATE:

So yesterday I finally got a letter from Islington saying that they've received my Statutory Declaration and that they've submitted their evidence to the Adjudicator. They have also provided me with a copy of all that evidence - some 20 pages worth and a CD-ROM with footage of alleged contravention.

I understand that my next step now is to provide the adjudicator with evidence that representations were made, and they have also requested that in a letter to me.

However, I just wanted to check in with the experts to make sure this is indeed the correct next step and whether there is anything I should be made aware of.

Thanks in advance for any replies, as always much appreciated!
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hcandersen
post Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 13:02
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I understand that my next step now is to provide the adjudicator with evidence that representations were made, and they have also requested that in a letter to me.


And who is 'they'?

If the adjudicator, then don't expect any advice other than to comply with the adjudicator's directions, not a request, directions that you take specified steps.

Better if you show this letter.

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Frustratedmum
post Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 14:35
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 14:02) *
I understand that my next step now is to provide the adjudicator with evidence that representations were made, and they have also requested that in a letter to me.


And who is 'they'?

If the adjudicator, then don't expect any advice other than to comply with the adjudicator's directions, not a request, directions that you take specified steps.

Better if you show this letter.




This post has been edited by Frustratedmum: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 14:41
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hcandersen
post Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 16:13
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'The adjudicator directs that you now substantiate your witness statement.....and requires you to produce a copy of the representations that you state you made to the enforcement authority.....by 10 June'

Absolutely clear.

All you produce is the reps and any other evidence you might have (implicitly to establish that you didn't write them yesterday!), in your case you sent your reps within the body of an email so proof on your part should be straightforward.

What irks me is that apparently the authority claim to have issued a NOR, the power to do which arises ONLY if they have received representations. It is, as they say, axiomatic that if a NOR has been issued then they acknowledge receipt of compliant reps!

Frankly, I would send your reps to the adjudicator and I would do this under a covering letter which says that you are pleased to comply with the adjudicator's directions by enclosing a copy of your representations but which also expresses your surprise at being asked to produce these given that in extended conversations/correspondence with you the authority claim to have issued a NOR which could only have occurred if they had received representations in the first instance. You would hope that the authority have not claimed the contrary in their submission thereby putting the adjudicator and tribunal staff to unnecessary trouble.

But then I like to tweak the noses of idiot councils.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 - 16:14
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Frustratedmum
post Fri, 3 Jul 2020 - 15:36
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QUESTION: Having already submitted evidence to London Tribunals (that representations were made) upon direction of the Adjudicator (see previous messages), is there any more/other evidence I should be submitting/relying on for the appeal stage? Or is the evidence I've previously submitted sufficient?


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Frustratedmum
post Wed, 22 Jul 2020 - 16:39
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22/07 UPDATE:

I today received a letter from London Tribunals saying that "the appeal was refused" and that "the full penalty charge of £130 must be paid." (Please see attached images.)

It was my understanding from the advice given on here, earlier in the thread, that the PCN would be reverted back to the original reduced amount of £65.

What have I missed/done wrong? And are there any steps I can still take to get the PCN reverted back to the discounted amount of £65?







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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 22 Jul 2020 - 17:46
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you made no further argument other than your representation. Te adjudicator accepted that a representation was made and invited you to submit an appeal you did not do so and on the evidence you submitted found against you


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