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[NIP Wizard] Dont know what this NIP is for, Totally unexpected NIP
Sugarcube
post Sat, 25 Jul 2020 - 19:13
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - July 2020
Date of the NIP: - 21 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 23 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - xxxxxxx Dual carriage.
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Leasee
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - dont remember anything Says NIP is for.... "Without reasonable consideration to other users"

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 19:13:53 +0000

Says NIP is for.... "Without reasonable consideration to other users"

This post has been edited by Sugarcube: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 - 19:46
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post Sat, 25 Jul 2020 - 19:13
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Jlc
post Sat, 25 Jul 2020 - 20:10
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Could be a number of things, e.g.
Tailgating
Cutting someone up
Not indicating
Overtaking on inside
Brake testing
Using undimmed headlights

At the moment the requirement is to just name the driver. They will contact you to discuss the allegation.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 - 20:12


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Sugarcube
post Sat, 25 Jul 2020 - 20:16
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Thanks, i dont remember anything but cant rule out undertaking or not indicating. Imagine the police force will have dash cam footage.

Just wish they sent the fine along with NIP, to avoid anxiety.
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The Rookie
post Sat, 25 Jul 2020 - 20:21
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They should only send the fixed penalty to someone they have a reasonable suspicion committed an offence, if sending it to the registered keeper who may or may not have been driving, it would be unreasonable to say they had a reasonable suspicion I’d suggest?


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southpaw82
post Sat, 25 Jul 2020 - 21:04
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QUOTE (Sugarcube @ Sat, 25 Jul 2020 - 21:16) *
Just wish they sent the fine along with NIP, to avoid anxiety.


How would an FPN make you less anxious?

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 25 Jul 2020 - 21:21) *
They should only send the fixed penalty to someone they have a reasonable suspicion committed an offence, if sending it to the registered keeper who may or may not have been driving, it would be unreasonable to say they had a reasonable suspicion I’d suggest?

No. Is it possible that the RK was driving? If yes, that's a reasonable suspicion. However, the test for a COFP is reasonable belief, not reasonable suspicion.

This post has been edited by southpaw82: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 - 21:05


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Davverb
post Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 07:17
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 25 Jul 2020 - 22:04) *
How would an FPN make you less anxious?


Because not knowing what has happened causes the anxiety. May seem like a small thing if you don't suffer from anxiety.

I know exactly how the OP feels.

This post has been edited by Davverb: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 07:17
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southpaw82
post Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 11:33
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QUOTE (Davverb @ Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 08:17) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 25 Jul 2020 - 22:04) *
How would an FPN make you less anxious?


Because not knowing what has happened causes the anxiety. May seem like a small thing if you don't suffer from anxiety.

I know exactly how the OP feels.

Won’t the FPN just say the same as the NIP though?


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Davverb
post Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 11:46
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 12:33) *
QUOTE (Davverb @ Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 08:17) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 25 Jul 2020 - 22:04) *
How would an FPN make you less anxious?


Because not knowing what has happened causes the anxiety. May seem like a small thing if you don't suffer from anxiety.

I know exactly how the OP feels.

Won’t the FPN just say the same as the NIP though?


I hope not. I'd like to know what the actual offence was I can't plead guilty to careless driving if I don't know what it was they seemed careless. Surely it would say 3 points and £100 for 'hogging the middle lane' or for aggressively overtaking late at slip road? Surely?
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Jlc
post Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 11:50
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That would be lovely but not the way it works unfortunately.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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southpaw82
post Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 12:37
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QUOTE (Davverb @ Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 12:46) *
I hope not. I'd like to know what the actual offence was I can't plead guilty to careless driving if I don't know what it was they seemed careless. Surely it would say 3 points and £100 for 'hogging the middle lane' or for aggressively overtaking late at slip road? Surely?

No. Hence my question as to why an FPN (strictly, a COFP for the pedants who ignore context) would be preferable to an NIP. And you wouldn’t be “pleading guilty” to anything by accepting it.


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Sugarcube
post Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 13:12
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Part of me is tempted to ring the 111 number tomorrow and request evidence, but not sure if this is a good idea.

As I'm leasing, i received the NIP late and so i have no memory of anything eventful on that particular journal.

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Jlc
post Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 13:53
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They are extremely unlikely to share any ‘evidence’ at this stage.

Name the driver and wait for them to contact you. The allegation will be made clear to you and you can decided on next actions.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Logician
post Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 14:01
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QUOTE (Sugarcube @ Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 14:12) *
Part of me is tempted to ring the 111 number tomorrow and request evidence, but not sure if this is a good idea.


I would advise against that for three reasons:

1. The 111 number is the NHS health advice line
2. The police 101 number connects to the local police who will know nothing about traffic offences
3. It is too early to ask for evidence, you are only entitled to see evidence as such if the matter is going to court. Asking for evidence can indicate to the police that you dispute the offence and make them less inclined to offer an out-of-court settlement, so it is said.

Instead ring the unit who issued the NIP, which I think is down in Sidcup for the Met, and ask if they can tell you what this relates to. Tell them that you are the driver.

There is no harm in posting the exact location as given on the NIP, and I ask because 'xxxxxx Dual carriageway' sounds as though it might cover a considerable length of road, and a NIP can be ruled invalid if the location is too vague.

This post has been edited by Logician: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 14:50


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NewJudge
post Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 14:05
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QUOTE (Davverb @ Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 12:46) *
I hope not. I'd like to know what the actual offence was I can't plead guilty to careless driving if I don't know what it was they seemed careless. Surely it would say 3 points and £100 for 'hogging the middle lane' or for aggressively overtaking late at slip road? Surely?

To be clear (and taken from the OP's first post) the offence alleged is not careless driving. It is driving "Without reasonable consideration to other users"

This is a different offence to careless driving. The RTA itself says this:

"A person is to be regarded as driving without reasonable consideration for other persons only if those persons are inconvenienced by his driving."

Driving below standard isn't enough. There has to be an identifiable "victim" who was inconvenienced by your poor driving. The CPS charging guidance says this:

"In cases of inconsiderate driving, there must be evidence that some other user of the road or public place was actually inconvenienced"

At present he is only being asked to provide the driver's details. Until he does that they are unlikely to discuss the matter with anyone other than the driver and they don't yet know who that is. He may be better off waiting to see what, if any charges are laid and what details are provided.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 19:06
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Sugarcube
post Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 17:12
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Thanks for the replies & advice on this. I have never had any traffic issues or interacted with the police before, so this was a big shock for me.

I see its now just a 10min online form for people to submit dashcam footage online.

https://www.met.police.uk/ro/report/rti/rep...affic-incident/
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Fredd
post Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 18:25
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 15:05) *
At present you are only being asked to provide the driver's details.

The person you're replying to isn't the OP, which is perhaps the source of the confusion.


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NewJudge
post Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 19:08
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 19:25) *
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sun, 26 Jul 2020 - 15:05) *
At present you are only being asked to provide the driver's details.

The person you're replying to isn't the OP, which is perhaps the source of the confusion.

Thanks Fredd. Fixed (I think).
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Sugarcube
post Mon, 27 Jul 2020 - 22:08
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Having made further inquiries the incident is for tailgating. The number plate is not clearly visible at the time of the incident. The number plate snap was taken well before the incident itself.
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Logician
post Mon, 27 Jul 2020 - 22:11
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QUOTE (Sugarcube @ Mon, 27 Jul 2020 - 23:08) *
Having made further inquiries the incident is for tailgating. The number plate is not clearly visible at the time of the incident. The number plate snap was taken well before the incident itself.


But is it clearly of the same vehicle? Was it taken by police or a MoP?



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Sugarcube
post Mon, 27 Jul 2020 - 22:16
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Yes, the car in the video matches the colour & make of my car, but this is a very common vehicle.

It was taken by a MoP, who was recording on a dashcam.

This post has been edited by Sugarcube: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 - 22:27
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