PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Nip Received lack of appropriate signing?, Does there even have to be signing?
Mozzer1975
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 09:08
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: 12 Nov 2016
Member No.: 88,400



I wont bother with a NIP wizard its all in order but appreciate your comments observations.

Long story short, See the pic attached i've been caught doing 37/30 about 800 meters further down this road by a dull gray van on the the left just around the bend. Not the usual white vans with Chevrons on, a Dull Gray little number perfectly intended to blend in, Is this OK do they not need to be visible?

It used to be a 40 and it totally slipped my mind. On reflection is this enough signing warning of the change? Does there even have to be any signing warning of a 30 based on Street lights? Just planning a retort as it seems a really harsh Trap this one, OK there are Houses to the left with really long gardens after the pub field. hardly a built up area i think you will agree.

This post has been edited by Mozzer1975: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 09:18
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 09:08
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
southpaw82
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 09:17
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



No, they don’t have to be visible.


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 09:20
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



There doesn't have to be any warning of a change in limit, it's entirely voluntary on the relevant highways authority. If they do decide to then that is the sign they must use.

The fact there is a system streetlights means defects in signage would not be a defence anyway.

Built up area has been of no legal relevance since they introduced restricted roads (based on streetlighting) nearly 90 years ago.

Vans/cameras do not need to meet the conspicuity guidelines, no. There have been vans repainted to look like a builders van or even camera's in horse boxes.

At least you qualify for a speed awareness course if you've not done one n the last three years (based on offence date).

It also seems to have been reduced to a 30 since sometime before Mar '19, so hardly a new limit anymore I'd suggest.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 09:28


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
I am Weasel
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 09:22
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,423
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
From: Winnersh, UK
Member No.: 27,840



Unfortunately, that sign is just a gentle reminder and is not a legal requirement at all. Forest Lane is a 30MPH and when you turned onto Moor Road at the Griffin's Head, there are no signs indicating a new limit. therefore (as you correctly surmised), the street lights are all that is needed to indicated the 30MPH limit.

This speed usually sees an offer of a speed awareness course - which you can accept if you have not done such a course in the last3 years
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mozzer1975
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 09:25
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: 12 Nov 2016
Member No.: 88,400



Cheers Guys thought this may be the case. Not One 30 sign on this stretch. just tactical isn't it. don't put a sign up and stick a van there. Surely the first port of call to "reduce speed" and "prevent accidents" is a couple of F'ing discs with the number 30 on sign.

PS done a course 2 years ago and picked up 3 cherries a year ago. now this! All zapped in Jan. think i need to look at my self. im not a raging Road hog just creep over from time to time. There calling me Zara Phillips in the pub :-(

This post has been edited by Mozzer1975: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 09:29
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 09:33
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



30 repeater signs are not permitted (are specifically prohibited) on a restricted road, so it's not at all surprising , nor even the council's fault (or even subterfuge) I'd suggest.

If you apply logical thought you'll understand why not.........


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mozzer1975
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 09:35
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: 12 Nov 2016
Member No.: 88,400



QUOTE (I am Weasel @ Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 09:22) *
Unfortunately, that sign is just a gentle reminder and is not a legal requirement at all. Forest Lane is a 30MPH and when you turned onto Moor Road at the Griffin's Head, there are no signs indicating a new limit. therefore (as you correctly surmised), the street lights are all that is needed to indicated the 30MPH limit.

This speed usually sees an offer of a speed awareness course - which you can accept if you have not done such a course in the last3 years


That's exactly what ive done! you know the area well Weasel! Stupid thing as i turned left, i vividly remember taking caution as the the Zappers usually park in that lay-by on the Right... I'm so stupid.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
I am Weasel
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 09:37
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,423
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
From: Winnersh, UK
Member No.: 27,840



QUOTE (Mozzer1975 @ Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 09:25) *
Cheers Guys thought this may be the case. Not One 30 sign on this stretch. just tactical isn't it. don't put a sign up and stick a van there. Surely the first port of call to "reduce speed" and "prevent accidents" is a couple of F'ing discs with the number 30 on sign.

PS done a course 2 years ago and picked up 3 cherries a year ago. now this! All zapped in Jan. think i need to look at my self. im not a raging Road hog just creep over from time to time. There calling me Zara Phillips in the pub :-(

The speed limit was changed over 5 years ago so I am surprised that even the reminder sign is still there.
I know it's no consolation, but many folk are caught at speed just over the threshold for prosecution and like you are not road-hogs, but just had momentary lapses of concentration.
Since your previous faux-pas were all in January, maybe they were all brought on by the after effects of Christmas excess cool.gif tongue.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BaggieBoy
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 09:37
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6,723
Joined: 3 Apr 2006
From: North Hampshire
Member No.: 5,183



The 30 MPH terminal signs are there a little further back up the road:

https://goo.gl/maps/YLv64sGmrZTpgTkR6
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mozzer1975
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 09:39
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: 12 Nov 2016
Member No.: 88,400



QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 09:37) *
The 30 MPH terminal signs are there a little further back up the road:

https://goo.gl/maps/YLv64sGmrZTpgTkR6



Thats a totally different road tho? That Blidworth waye!! not Moor Road.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 09:43
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



So what? Once you are in a limit you are in a that limit until signage says it's now a new limit.

How long have you been driving? Drive round a town, is there a 30 sign at the entry of every road...... (rhetorical question by the way).


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mozzer1975
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 09:48
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: 12 Nov 2016
Member No.: 88,400



QUOTE (I am Weasel @ Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 09:37) *
QUOTE (Mozzer1975 @ Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 09:25) *
Cheers Guys thought this may be the case. Not One 30 sign on this stretch. just tactical isn't it. don't put a sign up and stick a van there. Surely the first port of call to "reduce speed" and "prevent accidents" is a couple of F'ing discs with the number 30 on sign.

PS done a course 2 years ago and picked up 3 cherries a year ago. now this! All zapped in Jan. think i need to look at my self. im not a raging Road hog just creep over from time to time. There calling me Zara Phillips in the pub :-(

The speed limit was changed over 5 years ago so I am surprised that even the reminder sign is still there.
I know it's no consolation, but many folk are caught at speed just over the threshold for prosecution and like you are not road-hogs, but just had momentary lapses of concentration.
Since your previous faux-pas were all in January, maybe they were all brought on by the after effects of Christmas excess cool.gif tongue.gif


You could be on to something Weasel!! at least im doing Dry Jan which will help me pay the £100 boys off. In all serious it really racks me off how disproportionate the Fine is for doing the speed over the limit equivalent to a medium Jog down a country road!! yet in the Notts evening post yesterday Drunk drivers we getting 40/80/120 pound fines for being over the limit, totally bonkers.

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 09:43) *
So what? Once you are in a limit you are in a that limit until signage says it's now a new limit.

How long have you been driving? Drive round a town, is there a 30 sign at the entry of every road...... (rhetorical question by the way).


Id hardly call this stretch a town.

but Fair point just ****** off. its should never be a 30 road based on other equivalent roads in the area. 26 years BTW
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 10:15
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



The town was an example of where you move road to road and don't expect each one to have a sign.

The drink drive fine is low as the real punishment is that they'll be off the road for at least 9 months, but if you want to swap to that I'm sure it can be arranged!

Time to use logic mode instead of rant mode?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BaggieBoy
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 10:17
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6,723
Joined: 3 Apr 2006
From: North Hampshire
Member No.: 5,183



Looking back on Google Streetview it shows that the limit for that stretch of Moor Road was 40 in 2012 but by 2014 had been changed to a 30.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mozzer1975
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 10:35
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: 12 Nov 2016
Member No.: 88,400



QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 10:15) *
The town was an example of where you move road to road and don't expect each one to have a sign.

The drink drive fine is low as the real punishment is that they'll be off the road for at least 9 months, but if you want to swap to that I'm sure it can be arranged!

Time to use logic mode instead of rant mode?


but tot up 4 instances for in effect a swift walk over the limit and you get 6 mths and a hefty fine. Still say it is disproportionate these minor infringements. agree or not?

Just wondering on this forum actually. How many cases you guys see where the is an actual anomaly with the facts. having a swift read through i didn't see many cases where you advise to "fight back". seems the authorities have their act together these days.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Logician
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 11:32
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,572
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



Few people should be getting a fine as low as £40 for an excess alcohol offence, the starting point is a Band C fine, so after a guilty plea that would be 100% of weekly income, and the minimum weekly income is £120. OK, the range goes down to a Band B fine, which would give a minimum of £40 but there would be few occasions when dropping to that level could be justified, In addition the would be the surcharge with a minimum of £32 and costs of £85 because it is always dealt with by a court not a fixed penalty.

Anyway this section deals with what the law is, not what it should be, that is reserved for the Flame Pit and lobbying your MP.


--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 11:42
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (Mozzer1975 @ Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 11:35) *
but tot up 4 instances for in effect a swift walk over the limit and you get 6 mths and a hefty fine. Still say it is disproportionate these minor infringements. agree or not?

In 36 years I've been caught twice, never by a camera and both times more than 20 over the limit and well knew I was speeding, I don't know total miles in that time but well over 200,000 for sure.

Oh and if you ask my wife she'll jokingly tell you I only speed once per journey, from just after I set off to just before I arrive, I just make sure I know the limit and my speed and the risks in that area so I don't get caught, I don't think it's that hard if you learn to driver properly.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mozzer1975
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 12:29
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: 12 Nov 2016
Member No.: 88,400



QUOTE (Logician @ Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 11:32) *
Few people should be getting a fine as low as £40 for an excess alcohol offence, the starting point is a Band C fine, so after a guilty plea that would be 100% of weekly income, and the minimum weekly income is £120. OK, the range goes down to a Band B fine, which would give a minimum of £40 but there would be few occasions when dropping to that level could be justified, In addition the would be the surcharge with a minimum of £32 and costs of £85 because it is always dealt with by a court not a fixed penalty.

Anyway this section deals with what the law is, not what it should be, that is reserved for the Flame Pit and lobbying your MP.


2 minutes on the Notts post....

Legitimate Threats to Kill Jeremy Corbin
A four-week prison term, suspended for a year, was imposed on Naylor, of Nottingham Road, Eastwood. He must pay £207 costs.

two times 36/in a 30 on a country road 7 pound cheaper... Bargain.

Worlds gone mad.... Flame pit it is....
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 13:44
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,687
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



But no declarable offence that sticks for a while, and prison terms arent exactly a picnic...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 14:32
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



Equating fines to costs is, quite frankly, bonkers.


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 15:55
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here