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Notice to owner contravention 48j, Help
Ncl1968
post Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 20:27
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Hi I was on a roundabout and a cheeky camera car whizzed by .I believe I was in the middle of the roundabout and I can clearly see yellow zig zags away from my car
Traffic is very slow that time of day and the kids jump out on roundabout. The video shows kids but not them leaving the car just being there
Can I claim I did not stop on zig zags and that I was in traffic
The pics and video were on the web now they are not.. the formal rejection notice states that to see evidence click pay now ,I tried and it was a card payment page nothing else

I don't know how to see the evidence again??
I am happy to supply the log in details for the evidence
Thanks

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post Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 20:27
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stamfordman
post Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 21:11
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Post the PCN.

Message me the car reg and PCN number and name of council and I'll check for video.
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Ncl1968
post Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 21:50
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eN5gtXPZUr...ew?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dkMQ5EqlnF...ew?usp=drivesdk

This post has been edited by Ncl1968: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 11:54
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stamfordman
post Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 21:55
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You've posted your name and address so delete the first pic.

Also you need to set docs to public. Maybe better to email me stuff as per my PM.

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cp8759
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 11:28
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You need to show us all pages of the Notice of Rejection. There is a known flaw in Neath Port Talbot Notices of Rejection.


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Ncl1968
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 12:05
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 11:28) *
You need to show us all pages of the Notice of Rejection. There is a known flaw in Neath Port Talbot Notices of Rejection.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/36wkYgm1MhEKcJQBA

Rejection notice
Thanks

QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 21:55) *
You've posted your name and address so delete the first pic.

Also you need to set docs to public. Maybe better to email me stuff as per my PM.

Thanks I sent pics and removed address
Doh!!!!
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stamfordman
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 12:17
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I have just emailed you -can you try and take pics of complete pages as some are cut off.

Also the webcode you sent - is that on the PCN somewhere. I think it is wrong.
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Ncl1968
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 12:23
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Hi I will send new pics to your email
Thanks
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stamfordman
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 12:54
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OK I have the video but not posting it as it shows your kids. Here's a still and it shows your car very close to the no stopping area and I don't think an adjudicator will let you off. The video shows no traffic queue but it is short and shot mainly looking to the side but it doesn't look good.

But I'll post the PCN and the rejection later and CP can look for something else.

As it stands you have a rejection and the choice is pay £35 or appeal to the tribunal.



This post has been edited by stamfordman: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 12:59
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Ncl1968
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:20
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 12:54) *
OK I have the video but not posting it as it shows your kids. Here's a still and it shows your car very close to the no stopping area and I don't think an adjudicator will let you off. The video shows no traffic queue but it is short and shot mainly looking to the side but it doesn't look good.

But I'll post the PCN and the rejection later and CP can look for something else.

As it stands you have a rejection and the choice is pay £35 or appeal to the tribunal.


Thanks
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cp8759
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 15:27
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Can't see the rejection letter?


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stamfordman
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 15:29
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 15:27) *
Can't see the rejection letter?


I'll do it in a bit. I had a go at blurring faces just to avoid doing any work. Other cars clearly on zig-zag.



This post has been edited by stamfordman: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 15:29
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stamfordman
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 15:39
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Rejection




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cp8759
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 17:12
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The Notice of Rejection has the same flaw as William Clarke v Nottingham City Council (NG00388-2109, 15 November 2021) https://bit.ly/3cbEmV1 (in the sense that there is an arguable ambiguity).

There is no guarantee that a different adjudicator might consider the notice to be substantially compliant, but it is something you can appeal on. If you do, you can throw in an argument that the restriction only applies on the markings, and not up to the centre of the carriageway.


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Neil B
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 18:42
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I must have missed something.
How are they demanding only £35 ?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Ncl1968
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 19:13
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 17:12) *
The Notice of Rejection has the same flaw as William Clarke v Nottingham City Council (NG00388-2109, 15 November 2021) https://bit.ly/3cbEmV1 (in the sense that there is an arguable ambiguity).

There is no guarantee that a different adjudicator might consider the notice to be substantially compliant, but it is something you can appeal on. If you do, you can throw in an argument that the restriction only applies on the markings, and not up to the centre of the carriageway.

Nice one thanks 😊
So how do I word the appeal?
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Incandescent
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 19:18
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 18:42) *
I must have missed something.
How are they demanding only £35 ?

Well, that's up to them, their letter of rejection gives this sum as owing !

QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 19:16) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 18:42) *
I must have missed something.
How are they demanding only £35 ?

Well, that's up to them, their letter of rejection gives this sum as owing !

Just noticed it is Port Talbot council in South Wales, so they may not be totally up-to-speed on the enforcement process.
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cp8759
post Fri, 19 Nov 2021 - 17:01
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QUOTE (Ncl1968 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 19:13) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 17:12) *
The Notice of Rejection has the same flaw as William Clarke v Nottingham City Council (NG00388-2109, 15 November 2021) https://bit.ly/3cbEmV1 (in the sense that there is an arguable ambiguity).

There is no guarantee that a different adjudicator might consider the notice to be substantially compliant, but it is something you can appeal on. If you do, you can throw in an argument that the restriction only applies on the markings, and not up to the centre of the carriageway.

Nice one thanks 😊
So how do I word the appeal?

Would you like me to represent you at the tribunal?


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hcandersen
post Fri, 19 Nov 2021 - 18:13
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The NOR states:

'The outstanding penalty charge ...must be paid before the end of 28 days beginning the date of this notice(this is usually two working days after the date of the Notice of Rejection date above)'

OP, the highlighted part was not in evidence in the case cited. Given that adjudicator's less than overwhelming support for a PI when those words were omitted - at least not referred to in evidence - IMO your chances are reduced now that they are there.

OP, let's be clear: you stopped as do other parents despite knowing of the restriction which has been put in place to avoid the sort of traffic build-up seen in the video. You deliberately positioned yourself off the lines hoping this would avail you should any PCN come your way.

You do not sit with the angels on this one and IMO the adj would have this in mind.

I would like to refer to another PI in the NOR which is the failure to notify the owner of their right of appeal which is in two parts:

1. A statutory period of 28 days beginning on the date of service;
2. A discretionary element without limit within the gift of the adjudicator.

The authority are required to state both aspects in a NOR.

They have not.

As regards: How are they demanding only £35 ?

Are they really I wonder? The body of the NOR makes no reference to a discount period, therefore based on the headline alone one could think that £35 was owing. However, the CC section states £70 to £105!

OP, given the multiplicity of their c**k-ups they can't hope to win and when they read your appeal would throw in the towel - if they have any sense.

But stop parking there, it's dangerous.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 - 18:14
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Ncl1968
post Fri, 19 Nov 2021 - 18:52
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Thank you and I now sit with angels regarding school runs..lesson learnt..
As for the appeal can I ask how to word it please
Many thanks
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