PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

[NIP Wizard] Alledged Speeding Wales 70mph on a Duel Carriageway
MCCRoadster
post Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 11:04
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 79
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Member No.: 26,506



NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - October 2019
Date of the NIP: - 26 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 28 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A55 Rhuallt Hill Eastbound, Denbighshire
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Hire
How many current points do you have? - 3
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Alledged speed 70mph on a duel carriageway with a central reservation. However, driving a Mercedes sprinter van so the alledged offence is 70mph on a 60mph restricted road for type of vehicle. If it is of any consequence, in Wales, and upon this particular road, national speed limit signs do not apply nor are they displayed. Instead 70mph limit boards are displayed (from my understanding and memory but I would need to check this out to be sure and if it should bear any relevance to this alledged offence).

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Wales

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 08 Nov 2019 11:04:27 +0000
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V  < 1 2  
Start new topic
Replies (20 - 36)
Advertisement
post Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 11:04
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
NewJudge
post Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 14:39
Post #21


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,746
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Member No.: 23,623



Has something happened in the last two months to make you resurrect this? Presumably you have named yourself as the driver. It is now three months (or thereabouts) since the alleged offence and you should have been offered either a course or fixed penalty by now. If it goes beyond four months those offers may not be made.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MCCRoadster
post Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 15:20
Post #22


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 79
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Member No.: 26,506



Its important if its a motorway or duel carriageway as driving a van at 70mph and the offence is exceeding 60mph thanks

Yes I have named myself as the driver and have spoken to them last week with a granted additional weeks grace to submit licence and fine
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 15:21
Post #23


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



I don’t believe the A55 is a motorway (special road), is it?


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NewJudge
post Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 15:55
Post #24


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,746
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Member No.: 23,623



QUOTE (MCCRoadster @ Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 15:20) *
Its important if its a motorway or duel carriageway as driving a van at 70mph and the offence is exceeding 60mph thanks

Yes, I understand what the issue is. But I thought that it had been largely put to bed last November, especially in posts #14 to #18. I assumed you had accepted that advice and wondered why, after two months, you had asked essentially the same question again.

To answer your latest specific question, the number of lanes has no bearing on whether a road is a standard dual carriageway or a motorway. There are plenty of standard dual carriageways with three, or even four lanes in each direction and plenty of motorway miles with just two lanes each way. The A2 and M2 from SE London to the Kent coast demonstrates this quite well. Much of the London end of the A2 is three lanes and actually becomes four lanes east of Bean interchange near Dartford. When the main road becomes the M2 just before the Medway Crossing it is variously three or four lanes until Junction 4 when it is reduced to two lanes. It remains that way until its end at Junction 7. The road then splits into the two lane A2 Broughton by-pass and the two lane A299 Thanet Way. The definition of a motorway or of a standard dual carriageway does not rely on the number of lanes in either.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 16:00
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MCCRoadster
post Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 16:05
Post #25


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 79
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Member No.: 26,506



Ok thank you. I'd only looked at the street view now out of interest.

So a motorway is only a motorway when the motorway signage (the blue sign with two white lanes under a bridge) are visible prior to joining.

Because many carriageways can look like a motorway but they are not actually a motorway (eg three lanes in both directions with a central barrier / reservation between them)

Apologies for going back to basics. I'm now just paranoid about exceeding my vehicles limit on such roads! Thank you for your time...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mickR
post Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 16:11
Post #26


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,235
Joined: 5 Jan 2007
From: England
Member No.: 9,919



I suggest, blue signs 70 red signs 60 rolleyes.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MCCRoadster
post Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 17:23
Post #27


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 79
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Member No.: 26,506



Sure....fundamentally its these defining factors.

Junctions on motorways are always numbered
Motorway signs are always blue, while they are green on dual carriageways
On a motorway, the right hand lane is only for overtaking, whereas you can use it for turning right on a dual carriageway
Exiting a motorway almost always involves a slip road
Roundabouts and traffic lights are extremely rare on motorways but very common on dual carriageways
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mickR
post Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 17:35
Post #28


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,235
Joined: 5 Jan 2007
From: England
Member No.: 9,919



I cant recall a roundabout ON a motorway
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NewJudge
post Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 17:48
Post #29


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,746
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Member No.: 23,623



You need to be a bit careful:

QUOTE (MCCRoadster @ Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 17:23) *
Roundabouts and traffic lights are extremely rare on motorways but very common on dual carriageways


On the section of the A2 I mentioned, between Kidbrooke (a couple of miles south of the Blackwall Tunnel) and where the main coast road becomes the M2 there are no roundabouts and no traffic lights. This is a stretch of more than twenty miles and in that stretch it is mainly three lanes with considerable stretches of four lanes. In many respects it is actually a "better" road than the later two lane stretches of the M2. I think blue signs are the best indication that you are on a motorway.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
666
post Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 18:51
Post #30


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,300
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Member No.: 47,602



QUOTE (MCCRoadster @ Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 17:23) *
Motorway signs are always blue, while they are green on dual carriageways.

Only green on primary routes.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
baggins1234
post Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 18:57
Post #31


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 951
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Member No.: 39,849



QUOTE (mickR @ Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 17:35) *
I cant recall a roundabout ON a motorway


M49 where it meets M4 jn 22 at the eastern end of the SSC

M50 where it meets M5 jn 8 near Strensham.

Both are accessed from the “main motorways” by way of entry and exit slips like a conventional motorway junction and each “minor motorway” ends directly at a roundabout with no slip roads.

Both roundabouts subject to motorway regulations.


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mdann52
post Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 19:15
Post #32


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 272
Joined: 19 Aug 2016
Member No.: 86,499



QUOTE (baggins1234 @ Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 18:57) *
QUOTE (mickR @ Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 17:35) *
I cant recall a roundabout ON a motorway


M49 where it meets M4 jn 22 at the eastern end of the SSC

M50 where it meets M5 jn 8 near Strensham.

Both are accessed from the “main motorways” by way of entry and exit slips like a conventional motorway junction and each “minor motorway” ends directly at a roundabout with no slip roads.

Both roundabouts subject to motorway regulations.


And argueably M32 where it meets the M4, but think we are getting into flame pit territory here!

The question here comes down to the special road. From the location in the OP (and a bit of googling), it would appear to be somewhere around J28-30, which is not a special road section (or certainly Wikipedia suggests the sections are somewhere between J17-J23 and not the whole road). Looks like these cameras have been there for around 18 months.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mickR
post Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 19:18
Post #33


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,235
Joined: 5 Jan 2007
From: England
Member No.: 9,919



@ baggins
Hardly the same thing as both roundabout are at the end of the motorway merely joining another. Show me a mway where there is a roundabout along it length not where it terminates.

This post has been edited by mickR: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 19:19
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
baggins1234
post Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 19:32
Post #34


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 951
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Member No.: 39,849



QUOTE (mickR @ Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 19:18) *
@ baggins
Hardly the same thing as both roundabout are at the end of the motorway merely joining another. Show me a mway where there is a roundabout along it length not where it terminates.


That’s not what you asked, but I see where you’re coming from. cool.gif

How about this on the M271. To stay on M271 you have to use a roundabout

Edit can’t upload pic, but it’s where M271 crosses M27

This post has been edited by baggins1234: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 19:57
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cabbyman
post Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 20:36
Post #35


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6,898
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
From: South of John O'Groats, north of Cape Town.
Member No.: 16,066



https://goo.gl/maps/UwFiyZfSFMNddhxGA

This post has been edited by cabbyman: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 20:41


--------------------
Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mickR
post Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 20:44
Post #36


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 7,235
Joined: 5 Jan 2007
From: England
Member No.: 9,919



QUOTE (baggins1234 @ Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 19:32) *
How about this on the M271. To stay on M271 you have to use a roundabout

Edit can’t upload pic, but it’s where M271 crosses M27


Ill give you that one wink.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fredd
post Mon, 6 Jan 2020 - 20:46
Post #37


Webmaster
Group Icon

Group: Root Admin
Posts: 8,205
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
From: Wokingham, UK
Member No.: 2



Ask yourselves, is this helping the OP?


--------------------
Regards,
Fredd

__________________________________________________________________________
Pepipoo relies on you
to keep this site running!
Donate to Pepipoo now using your
Visa, Mastercard, debit card or PayPal account
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V  < 1 2
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 29th March 2024 - 12:27
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here