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Clamping on private land - is it legal or not...., ...Pub car parks....
SurreyNorthern
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 17:24
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Just a general question, I haven't been tempted to test it..... and I don't know what the state of play is these days.....

I've noticed lately a few pubs have chalkboards, stating non-customers will be clamped.

One location for example is

The Two Rivers, Church Street, Staines - GSV Street View


So, the question is - can they??
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post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 17:24
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 17:32
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www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/section/54/enacted

S54

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Fredd
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 18:23
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The short answer is no, they can't (legally). But as with "trespassers will be shot prosecuted" signs, the empty threat is often enough.


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oldstoat
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 18:52
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Of course they can clamp. Walk up, place a clamp on the vehicle. Clamped

Legally though they are not allowed to.


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The Slithy Tove
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 11:36
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QUOTE (SurreyNorthern @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 17:24) *
I've noticed lately a few pubs have chalkboards, stating non-customers will be clamped.

I took this picture at a hotel near me (next to a beauty spot, no free parking nearby) 3 or so years ago:

They never did, as far as I know. The signs have gone now. Hollow threats.
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Churchmouse
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 16:50
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QUOTE (SurreyNorthern @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 17:24) *
Just a general question, I haven't been tempted to test it..... and I don't know what the state of play is these days.....

I've noticed lately a few pubs have chalkboards, stating non-customers will be clamped.

One location for example is

The Two Rivers, Church Street, Staines - GSV Street View


So, the question is - can they??

No, not without committing an offence. There is an explicit exception for barrier systems, however, but those cannot really be used to encourage payment the same way clamping or towing does...

--Churchmouse
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cp8759
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 17:42
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QUOTE (oldstoat @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 18:52) *
Of course they can clamp. Walk up, place a clamp on the vehicle. Clamped

Legally though they are not allowed to.

I would add that any person is entitled to use reasonable force to prevent crime, so my opinion is that it would be lawful to get an angle grinder and cut the clamp off.


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tocsin1
post Fri, 23 Nov 2018 - 15:50
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How does using an angle grinder to remove a clamp "prevent crime"? The crime has already been committed.
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Churchmouse
post Fri, 23 Nov 2018 - 17:31
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QUOTE (tocsin1 @ Fri, 23 Nov 2018 - 15:50) *
How does using an angle grinder to remove a clamp "prevent crime"? The crime has already been committed.

I suppose you could argue that the offence of illegally preventing the movement of the vehicle was on-going? Not sure the police would share that view...

--Churchmouse
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Half_way
post Sat, 24 Nov 2018 - 12:05
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Nothing to stop someone putting signs up warning of clamping/towing in their car park, as long as they are empty threats, you could even signs threatening £150 parking fines - or at one extreme clamp your own car in your own car park as a deterrent to stop unwanted parkers.
If signs threatening clamping/fines/towing etc do the trick, then its better than letting a PPC run riot in your car park with your guests/friends and customers
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cp8759
post Sat, 24 Nov 2018 - 19:43
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QUOTE (tocsin1 @ Fri, 23 Nov 2018 - 15:50) *
How does using an angle grinder to remove a clamp "prevent crime"? The crime has already been committed.

The starting point is that immobilising a vehicle without lawful authority is an offence. Subject to certain exceptions, the general position is that:

54 Offence of immobilising etc. vehicles

(1)A person commits an offence who, without lawful authority—
(a)immobilises a motor vehicle by the attachment to the vehicle, or a part of it, of an immobilising device, or
(b)moves, or restricts the movement of, such a vehicle by any means,
intending to prevent or inhibit the removal of the vehicle by a person otherwise entitled to remove it.

(2)The express or implied consent (whether or not legally binding) of a person otherwise entitled to remove the vehicle to the immobilisation, movement or restriction concerned is not lawful authority for the purposes of subsection (1).


Restricting the movement of a vehicle is an ongoing action until the restriction on the movement ceases to be effective, so it's an ongoing offence. You can therefore use reasonable force to prevent the continuation of that offence.

Further to that, a clamper will usually demand money in exchange for releasing a vehicle. Section 21 of the Theft Act 1968 provides that:

21 Blackmail.
(1) A person is guilty of blackmail if, with a view to gain for himself or another or with intent to cause loss to another, he makes any unwarranted demand with menaces; and for this purpose a demand with menaces is unwarranted unless the person making it does so in the belief—
(a) that he has reasonable grounds for making the demand; and
(b) that the use of the menaces is a proper means of reinforcing the demand.


Saying "give me £150 or your car isn't moving" to me sounds very much like a demand with menaces, the stories of people being stuck in a car park in the middle of nowhere were often quoted as a reason for bringing in the ban. Before the Protection of Freedoms Act 2000 came in, a clamper could rely on the common law principle of distress damage feasant to argue that immobilising the vehicle was a proper means of reinforcing the demand for money (because it was a form of self-help that the courts had accepted as being valid).

But now that the PoFA is in force, you cannot reasonably argue that an action which is in itself a criminal offence (immobilising the vehicle) is a proper means of reinforcing a demand for money. Hence section 3 of the Criminal Law Act 1967 would enable a victim of such offences to use reasonable force to remove the clamp.

The clamper could not prosecute the motorist for criminal damage, just as a burglar cannot prosecute a householder who arrests him and in the ensuing scuffle damages the burglar's clothing, phone or "tools of the trade"


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