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Anyone else? Ealing Council PCN appeals No responses, Council have gone straight to sending charge certificates. Worried
Guest_Newname_*
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 15:09
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Ealing Council sent two penalty charge notices for the same alleged offence
We made appeals and received automatic acknowledgements therefore the appeals were received
We were waiting for a response to the appeals. However we did not receive any responses and Ealing Council have now sent charge certificates
I've tried to get through to someone on the phone at Ealing Council but it's impossible as it's all recorded messages

Any idea where We Stand?

With thanks for any help

This post has been edited by Newname: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 15:52
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post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 15:09
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stamfordman
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 15:20
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What are dates of PCNs.

What are dates of charge certificates.

is the name and address correct on the charge certificates.

is the car leased or is it registered to you.

Post all you have - Put pics on https://imgbb.com or such like.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 15:20
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Guest_Newname_*
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 15:33
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Many thanks for your response

The penalty charge notices were issued in September 2018 and we made the appeal straight away, on the 18th of September
The charge certificates have just been sent - January 2019

Registered owner of the car

Other drivers have made appeals for the same alleged offence because of a lack of proper signage by Ealing Council. The only reason we've been sent two penalty charge notices is that with no signage we drove in the same spot twice

Aside from automatic responses to the appeals Ealing Council has otherwise not responded to the appeals

This post has been edited by Newname: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 15:34
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Neil B
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 15:50
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QUOTE (Newname @ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 15:33) *
Aside from automatic responses to the appeals Ealing Council has otherwise not responded to the appeals

You don't know that yet.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Guest_Newname_*
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 15:57
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Thanks for your response

A bit of a coincidence that two responses to two appeals would both go missing in the post. Both charge certificates have arrived without any problem.

We suspect what has happened is that Ealing Council have realised their mistake and just gone straight to sending charge certificates. They were otherwise out of time with the penalty charge notice appeals and this would automatically lead to the penalty charge notices having to be cancelled.

This post has been edited by Newname: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 15:59
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stamfordman
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 16:00
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QUOTE (Newname @ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 15:57) *
They were otherwise out of time with the penalty charge notice appeals and this would automatically lead to the penalty charge notices having to be cancelled.


OK, so moving traffic PCNs? You are only missing replies and there is no 56 day rule for these. You can get the PCNs automatically reset by making a statement that you'd didn't get a reply when Ealing registers the debts. See the process:

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/unde...rcement-process

You must post the paperwork if you want help.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 16:01
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Neil B
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 16:00
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QUOTE (Newname @ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 15:57) *
They were otherwise out of time with the penalty charge notice appeals and would automatically lead to penalty charge notices having to be cancelled.

These sound like moving traffic PCNS (you haven't said), for which there is no time limit.

What are the dates of the Charge Certs?

This post has been edited by Neil B: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 16:01


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Guest_Newname_*
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 16:10
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Fao Neil

The PCNs relate to driving where there was a time restriction. I suppose this is a moving traffic PCNs?

Date of charge certificates is 17th January


Fao Stamfordman

Thank you for the link

Don't know how to post the paperwork
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Neil B
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 16:27
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Answer to your problem is in post #4 in this thread -- and then read up to #10 http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=125524


Except in your circumstance, when reset, the matter will be referred to the adjudicator for directions.

Ealing will then write to you and we'll discover if they responded to your representations.

Come back if any problems.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 19:34


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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John U.K.
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 16:32
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QUOTE
Don't know how to post the paperwork


As usual, for best advice post up here all sides of the PCNs, a copy of your responses and all sides of CCs and a GSV(Google Street View ) link to the location.

Try this:

Do not attach docs/photos, but use this method:

Photo or scan. see http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36858&st=0
for how to do it. I use Tinypic for stage 2 with no problems. Thera are other sites, such as Flickr (where the BBcodes are concealed behind the curly arrow (click on it) for sharing), https://imgbb.com/ (highly recommended by Stamfordman) and imgur, which enable you to paste the BBCodes into your post here.
STAGE 1 takes care of resizing. If you use Tinypic for Stage 2, on the left each image in Tinypic is a list of links. Highlight and copy the entire link 'for forums' from the list for each image - beginning with IMG and ending /IMG (include all the square brackets [ ] ), and paste each link into your post. Each copied and pasted link will embed a thumbnail link in your post.

Using the attachment method is not advised as it means quickly running out of attachment space.

Redact/obscure name, address, PCN number and reg.mark.
LEAVE IN all dates/times; precise location, Contravention code and description.
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Guest_Newname_*
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 16:44
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If we pay the charge certificates but in protest will we still be able to proceed with appeals?

Other drivers have contested the same kind of PCN and won as Ealing Council have poor signage warning drivers. This was the basis of the appeals. Had there been adequate signage we wouldn't have committed the same alleged offence twice.

Ttying to get through to the court that deals with charge certificates is also nigh on impossible

This post has been edited by Newname: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 16:48
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cp8759
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 17:27
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QUOTE (Newname @ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 16:44) *
If we pay the charge certificates but in protest will we still be able to proceed with appeals?

Other drivers have contested the same kind of PCN and won as Ealing Council have poor signage warning drivers. This was the basis of the appeals. Had there been adequate signage we wouldn't have committed the same alleged offence twice.

Ttying to get through to the court that deals with charge certificates is also nigh on impossible

If you pay the charge certificate, the case is closed and there is no appeal.

There is no court that deals with charge certificates, as they're not court documents. You only need to deal with the court when you get the Order for Recovery.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Guest_Newname_*
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 17:36
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If we don't pay the charge certificates the Council will then apply to the County Court and Nottingham is the only County court that deals with the Council registration of charge certificates

This post has been edited by Newname: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 17:36
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stamfordman
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 17:39
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As CP says, paying closes the case so don't pay.

As you've already had a go at calling Ealing there is nothing to do now other than let the process unfold. The next step is they will issue orders for recovery, to which you make a declaration you'd didn't get replies. This automatically means Ealing must refer the declaration to the tribunal.

Or they may cancel.

I'm not sure what the adjudicator then does - I presume either asks Ealing to go back to the PCN stage or to cancel.
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Guest_Newname_*
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 17:45
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Thanks Stamfordman

I have sent complaints to Ealing Council and to their parking enforcement department having not been able to get through to them on the phone.

So yes otherwise it looks like waiting for the next stages
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Neil B
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 17:53
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 17:39) *
I'm not sure what the adjudicator then does - I presume either asks Ealing to go back to the PCN stage or to cancel.

Post #9


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
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cp8759
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 17:58
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QUOTE (Newname @ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 17:45) *
I have sent complaints to Ealing Council and to their parking enforcement department having not been able to get through to them on the phone.

The council complaints policy will say that they can't deal with complaints about PCNs, because there is a statutory appeals process in place.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Neil B
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 17:58
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QUOTE (Newname @ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 17:36) *
the Council will then apply to the County Court and Nottingham is the only County court that deals with the Council registration of charge certificates

Presumably you mean Northampton TEC, who accept registration of 'traffic penalty debts'


QUOTE (Newname @ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 16:44) *
Ttying to get through to the court is also nigh on impossible

I've explained, it's pointless phoning them yet.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Guest_Newname_*
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 17:59
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I'm not good at working backwards Neil

But are you saying Ealing Council could claim they sent responses to the appeals? However, as already said, seems a coincidence that 2 responses to appeals letters have gone missing but two charge certificates have been received aok

I think Ealing Council have already been ticked off for abuses of parking charge notices, and have lost when drivers have contested parking charge notices for the same offences we allegedly committed
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Neil B
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 18:02
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QUOTE (Newname @ Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 17:59) *
But are you saying Ealing Council could claim they sent responses to the appeals? However, as already said, seems a coincidence that 2 responses to appeals letters have gone missing but two charge certificates have been received aok

Why speculate?


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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