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Careless Driving Notice - car park scrape
Dave18
post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 18:58
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Hello,

I received a letter before Christmas to say my car had been reported to the police under careless driving, for not stopping at the scene of an accident. The incident is alleged to have taken place in a supermarket carpark.
My fiancé would have been driving at this time commuting back from work but has never visited the shops let alone the carpark where the incident is supposed to have occurred.

She has attended the police station with a solicitor to give her whereabouts at this time, normal driving pattern etc. We've also had our insurer assess our car and found no damage. The eyewitness gave our registration number but the description doesn't match her at all.

She is attending the police station again tomorrow as they have 'photographic' evidence now. How do people suggest we proceed? Especially if photos are vague?

This post has been edited by Dave18: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 18:59
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post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 18:58
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cp8759
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 11:53
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 03:07) *
Do they still conduct ID Parades in that way...I remember years ago being being stopped in Glasgow near a Cop Shop and asked if I'd be available to take part in a parade but I couldnt do it as I was working. Dont they use images of the suspect and other similar looking persons now instead of dragging folk in off the street.... I'm sure I saw that on telly.

http://www.viper.police.uk/


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Ocelot
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 15:50
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I'm surprised the police even go to the bother of investigating car park scrapes, let alone identity parades. When my car was vandalised 2 years ago they didn't want to know.
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nigelbb
post Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 06:40
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QUOTE (Ocelot @ Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 16:50) *
I'm surprised the police even go to the bother of investigating car park scrapes, let alone identity parades. When my car was vandalised 2 years ago they didn't want to know.

It depends on the police force. The Met couldn't care less but as I know from bitter experience small rural forces with nothing better to do will often initiate proceedings for careless driving with a simple car park scrape.


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British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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Mayhem007
post Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 09:05
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QUOTE (Ocelot @ Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 15:50) *
I'm surprised the police even go to the bother of investigating car park scrapes, let alone identity parades. When my car was vandalised 2 years ago they didn't want to know.

Its just not car park scrapes the alleged offences are a bit more severe in that you are normally charged with 3 counts
1. Leaving the scene of an accident
2. Not reporting the accident to the police within 24 hours
and
3. Driving without due care and attention


Given Southpaws reply, the OP might want to use the information in my post to his solicitor, not that it is binding in any way. However, your solicitor may be able to use the info as a good argument for your defence.


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NewJudge
post Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 11:03
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QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 10:05) *
Its just not car park scrapes the alleged offences are a bit more severe in that you are normally charged with 3 counts
1. Leaving the scene of an accident
2. Not reporting the accident to the police within 24 hours
and
3. Driving without due care and attention

Yes and numbers one and two carry a maximum sentence of six months' custody (two of the comparatively few motoring offences which can attract custody). Never a remote possibility in these circumstances, but nonetheless the offences carry a minimum of five points
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skidder
post Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 20:56
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QUOTE (Spinstorm @ Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 22:20) *
You can charge your phone in your car very easily.

Location services can also be turned off for certain apps but honestly unless your wife literally makes phone calls all day long then the only reason not to have location on to save battery is because she doesn’t charge the phone reguarely and properly.


Sometimes like my old phone no matter how often you charge it the battery dies very quickly. It's normally a new battery that's needed that sometimes is not easy to replace.(iphones). Some people don't want location services on. It's a personal preference. I think you presumed way too quickly.
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Dave18
post Wed, 29 Aug 2018 - 13:08
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Update since I last posted. My fiancee attended court yesterday to give her statutory declaration that the letter wasn't received and a new date has been set for December. In the mean time we plan to speak to our solicitor and I presume we'll receive some kind of formal summons document setting out what being prosecuted for and what the evidence is? After she gave her statutory declaration she was advised a sentence of 8 points + £600 fine was passed in her absence. Would this have been inflated due to her being absent? She is very nervous to attend court so my present thinking is to ask our solicitor to approach prosecuting solicitor for an out of court settlement.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 29 Aug 2018 - 13:23
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The fine wouldn’t include the discount for a guilty plea, otherwise no the sentancing is based on the version of events put before the court (and obviously accepted as true as there was no challenge).


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southpaw82
post Wed, 29 Aug 2018 - 13:24
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QUOTE (Dave18 @ Wed, 29 Aug 2018 - 14:08) *
an out of court settlement.

What sort of out of court settlement do you envisage? This isn’t a civil matter.


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Dave18
post Wed, 29 Aug 2018 - 13:41
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I've seen other topics on this forum with similar circumstances which discussed approaching the other party to pay for damages and avoid going to court. Is this not the case? My bad for using the wrong terminology.
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NewJudge
post Wed, 29 Aug 2018 - 15:09
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QUOTE (Dave18 @ Wed, 29 Aug 2018 - 14:41) *
I've seen other topics on this forum with similar circumstances which discussed approaching the other party to pay for damages and avoid going to court. Is this not the case?

No it is not. The other party is not the one taking the action. This is a criminal prosecution brought by the Crown. You cannot "buy" your way out of it!
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southpaw82
post Wed, 29 Aug 2018 - 15:44
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QUOTE (Dave18 @ Wed, 29 Aug 2018 - 14:41) *
I've seen other topics on this forum with similar circumstances which discussed approaching the other party to pay for damages and avoid going to court. Is this not the case? My bad for using the wrong terminology.

That is before it has gone to court, effectively the police have no interest in prosecution and leave the parties to sort it out. Too late for that now, as the police have decided to prosecute.


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Dave18
post Wed, 29 Aug 2018 - 16:41
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I see, so our solicitor I presume will assess the evidence and determine whether we have a defence and what our next steps would be. I'll make sure mayhem's post gets mentioned. Anything else we should be highlighting to our solicitor?

[quote name='Mayhem007' date='Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 17:55' post='1398390']
I was once witness to a very similar situation. I saw an old man hit the rear of someones vehicle whilst maneuvering into a parking space. The old man even inspected the rear of his car after posting a letter and then drove off. I informed the owner of the damaged vehicle and gave my details.
A couple of months later I gave a statement to the police with drawings of the position of the involved vehicles.
Two or three months later I had to go to court to give evidence. However not being privy to the court proceedings it became obvious that the prosecution were struggling with their case, as a police officer came in and took another statement from me whilst I was in the witness waiting room. I was specifically asked if I would recognize the person, to which I replied yes.
Anyway the case got dismissed. Apparently the defendants solicitor managed to convince the court that I could not possibly identify the person beyond all reasonable doubt due to the amount of time that had elapsed. Also, the defence argued that the police should have conducted a line up and requested that I identify the alleged offender soon after they were aware of the alleged offences
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samthecat
post Wed, 29 Aug 2018 - 18:42
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QUOTE (Dave18 @ Wed, 29 Aug 2018 - 14:41) *
I've seen other topics on this forum with similar circumstances which discussed approaching the other party to pay for damages and avoid going to court. Is this not the case? My bad for using the wrong terminology.


Why would you consider this if she was no where near the incident and not responsible for it?


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notmeatloaf
post Wed, 29 Aug 2018 - 19:46
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The bit you may have seen on other threads is a plea bargain. That's where you offer to plead guilty to one offence in exchange for dropping another more serious offence.

However it only works if you are guilty of an offence. Here you say you are not guilty and so you simply plead not guilty and absent of extraordinary coincidence they will not have evidence to convict.
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Dave18
post Wed, 29 Aug 2018 - 22:31
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So I can get some more quotes for solicitors, any in the Northamptonshire area that can be recommended? I've seen a list somewhere on the forum but can't find it now!
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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 30 Aug 2018 - 12:09
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The often recommended on on here is Bobby Bell of BB Law as relatively cheap and very effective.

It may in your case be worth waiting until after the case management hearing before instructing a solicitor. Your defence is very simple, it is mistaken identity and in that case the CPS are very likely to have poor or no evidence.

The CPS may well drop it at that stage when the prospect of a conviction becomes poor. Or you may well feel it will be simple to represent yourself in court. Solicitors are valuable but you will not be fully recompensed for their fees.

Yours, after all, is not a technical defence that relies on nuances of law.
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Dwaynedouglas
post Fri, 31 Aug 2018 - 06:45
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QUOTE (samthecat @ Wed, 29 Aug 2018 - 19:42) *
QUOTE (Dave18 @ Wed, 29 Aug 2018 - 14:41) *
I've seen other topics on this forum with similar circumstances which discussed approaching the other party to pay for damages and avoid going to court. Is this not the case? My bad for using the wrong terminology.


Why would you consider this if she was no where near the incident and not responsible for it?


OP - is there any reason for the above? Has your wife remembered something?


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I'm not a lawyer or legally trained, my opinion is based on my experience - follow at your own risk.
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