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5 speeding tickets within less than 2 months - exceptional circumstances - what can I do?
DKmag
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 12:58
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It's my first post here and this was also the result of my first speeding ticket(s) while living in the UK (originally from Denmark).

First of all, I take full responsibility for the speeding offences and I am happy to take a punishment, but feel that due to my circumstances, fines for all and 6 months loss of driving license will be too harsh. I would really like to hear your views on I can or should do, as I'm struggling to find similar case examples. I apologise if it seems like I'm bringing in a lot of different things, but I do because they all play a big part in painting the full picture so I can get the right advice, as I really don't know what to do.

The reason I could even get that many tickets within such a time frame was that I was only notified of them all at the same time, due to letters initially being sent to an old address, as after moving I had not notified the DVLA until several weeks after moving (actually had our old landlady forward any letters, but they had delivered in a place where we didn't see them until much later). Additionally, 4 of the speeding tickets was in the same location, nearby to where we moved and on a steep downhill stretch (although I know that information alone might not matter, even if it seems to be a very notorious location in the community). I should also point out all were in the band A, so the smallest level of offences.

The first thing I know, with a 20 year driving history and only one previous speeding fine from the first year of having my license, is that I am a very careful driver who doesn't generally speed and in fact much to the ridicule of others enjoy using my cruise control even in city areas where it requires a lot of activating and deactivating, but it gives me a sense of peace to know what speed I go at.

Now, in June my 1-year old son had a very very bad burn on his tummy and him being discharged from hospital later that day we got hit by another car really badly from behind causing total damage to the car in the side my son was sitting. What I realise now looking back is that traumatic experience has sometimes made me increase the speed when having other cars very close behind me. It's been subconscious, but I realise it now having been able to evaluate the speeding tickets.

Had I seen just one, or even two or three of the speeding tickets I would have been able to analyse this behaviour and change it. But getting hit by them all at once I was just never given that chance. Of course it was my own fault for not getting the address details updated in time, and for that I am happy to even pay all the fines, but a 6 month suspension I feel is just too much and as I'm still not entirely sure if I can challenge it with an exceptional hardship plea, although I am of course keeping that in mind.

I would really like to make a plea before it goes to court, but not sure if that's possible or the process of how to do it.

One thing I think about looking back is that the accident happened in the same police district as the 4 offences and police were present and saw everything including my son. We were never offered any kind of counselling to deal with the trauma and honestly none of us realised at the time we could need it. We were still in such a shock. Could you not argue the police who attended to and dealt with the case had failed their duties and indirectly being part cause to the speeding offences. I don't know but the more I think about it the more I feel that should be the case.

One of the offences were in Surrey, which I had already returned and will just be dealing with that, hopefully getting offered a speed awareness course as the first offence. The other 4 in the same spot in Sussex where I live I am about to return, but it's with these that I need to know what to do and how to proceed.

Any advice much appreciated.

This post has been edited by DKmag: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 13:17
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post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 12:58
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Jlc
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 13:29
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For the Sussex offences return all the driver nominations in one envelope with a covering letter asking them to consider dropping some of the offences - you've hit the key point around having the opportunity to adjust your driving. (But there is a counter argument that you should remain within the limits at all times and do not need a 'chance')

We have seen cases where this works but it is not guaranteed. Be careful what you say as trying to 'blame' the Police won't go down well - indeed, you seem to be saying that you were not in a fit state to be driving.

What were the alleged speeds and limits? (There's also another slim hope that you may be eligible for a different course)

At the worst case you'll have to go to court and submit an exceptional hardship plea. (12 points) How the points were accumulated should not be considered for this plea.

The impact on others carries more weight - so give that some thought.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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DKmag
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 13:46
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Thank you Jlc. Some very valuable advice.

I would never blame the police, but wanted to present it all to you to get the full picture. I realise not to touch on that at all now.

I'll also be careful about how I describe my state of mind or ability to drive. It 's just whenever people are RIGHT behind me and obviously I've then reacted to someone breaking the law, hopefully that would make it looked at more lightly?

The offences where in a 30 zone and from 36 to 38 or so.
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Logician
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 13:55
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Your best hope is getting the police to consider dropping one or more charges on the basis that you had no chance to think about and adjust your driving, as outlined above. In court the problem you face is that you can hardly plead not guilty to any of the offences, and the minimum number of points that can be given for speeding is 3, so however much the court might sympathise with you they would have to give you 12 points for 4 offences. Then you are on to an exceptional hardship argument to afford or reduce your disqualification period, and the circumstances of the offences are not relevant.


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DKmag
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 15:19
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How often does it happen you can get them to drop one or more charges with this argument about not being able to adjust your driving? Or is that different from place to place and who is looking at the case?
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NewJudge
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 15:49
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In my view there is very little chance of getting the police to drop one or more of the charges. It will only cost you a stamp, so it's worth a try but they really have no basis on which to show leniency. The idea that you should have been given the opportunity to improve your driving habits always seems a little strange to me. It is not usually applied to any other criminal offences. The law is quite clear and drivers are expected to be conversant with the law. I think the police cannot really work on the basis that miscreants should be given an opportunity to have the error of their ways pointed out to them.

I think you should remove from your mind the notion that the police who attended your accident are somehow to blame for not offering you counselling afterwards. I know you said later that you don't but in your first post you clearly do ("Could you not argue the police who attended to and dealt with the case had failed their duties and indirectly being part cause to the speeding offences. I don't know but the more I think about it the more I feel that should be the case."). UK police do not routinely arrange or offer counselling to drivers involved in minor traffic incidents. If you felt you may benefit from some you could always have arranged it yourself.

If you do end up with four cases which attract points (which seems a fair bet) you should begin to think about an "Exceptional Hardship" argument. What sort of hardship will you or others suffer if you are disqualified that makes it exceptional (i.e. over and above what would normally be visited on somebody who lost their licence)?
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Jlc
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 16:02
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We have seen cases where the Police have used discretion to drop some multiple offences - but plan on the basis they won't.

As noted, don't ask - don't get. One example was a new camera but again there's no legal basis for these to be dropped.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Logician
post Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 16:59
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Wed, 4 Dec 2019 - 15:49) *
The idea that you should have been given the opportunity to improve your driving habits always seems a little strange to me. It is not usually applied to any other criminal offences.


On the other hand, first time offenders other than traffic are very often given "words of advice" or a caution by the police or a conditional discharge in court.



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DKmag
post Wed, 1 Jan 2020 - 23:52
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Update:

So the police has refused to drop any of the 4 and replied to me that if going to court I could plead the mitigating circumstances.

At the moment I have received the 4 conditional offers of 100 pound fine and 3 points, but not sure how to proceed as from some of the answers in here it seemed if I couldn't get the police to drop at least one of the offences then my only chance in court would be to plead exceptional hardship. But obviously the reply from the police seems to indicate otherwise.

Any thoughts on what I should do now?
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The Rookie
post Thu, 2 Jan 2020 - 05:19
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Well you may as well accept the three conditional offers you can as that will be the cheapest and least painful way of dealing with them.



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NewJudge
post Thu, 2 Jan 2020 - 08:48
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I think you need to consider the question in the last paragraph of my earlier post (#6). You may also want to consider whether or not to take a course for one of the offences if it is offered. You still face a "totting up" ban even if you take it. If your EH plea is successful the points remain on your licence and you might want to keep the course in hand in case of future offences. You will face a totting up ban again and you cannot use the same EH reasons within three years.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Thu, 2 Jan 2020 - 08:56
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Jlc
post Thu, 2 Jan 2020 - 09:16
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It's a two stage process at court. Firstly the speeding offences themselves for which you can try and minimise the damage but as each is endorsable with a minimum of 3 points this seems unlikely even with 'mitigation'.

Then upon totting you can submit and exceptional hardship plea - how the points were accumulated are not considered.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 2 Jan 2020 - 09:17


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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