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MS90 license revoked, Threads merged x3
EPBA
post Sat, 2 Feb 2019 - 21:39
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Hi I'm new to this but seen a few forums and wondered if anyone can help me at all...

Today I received a letter by post to say that my license has been revoked and to return my license back to DVLA as I have 6 points on my license, this left me completely confused as it's the first I've even known of any of this! So I rang DVLA straight away to ask why this has happened they said it's an MS90 and I've failed to give identification of some sort on something that occurred on the 18th June 2018, she couldn't tell me exactly what and said to ring the courts which I tried to do earlier today, but they're closed so now I'm left unknown as to why (until Monday) this has happened I've had nothing to tell me this was going to happen nothing to say I've done anything wrong no letters nor phone calls until today when I received my letter to say my license is revoked and I cannot drive 5 days after the date of when the letter was sent to me.

I'm devastated as looking about it seems it could be something to do with speeding/running a red light which apperently happened 7 months ago, I have 3 children under 5 single mother and it's going to put a massive strain on getting them to and from school as it's miles away from home, and looking at this letter it states I will need to do my theory and practical again, can any one help? If this is a speeding offence but I knew nothing of it up until today when I've received the DVLA letter can I fight against this? What are my rights here? Have I lost my license all together?
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post Sat, 2 Feb 2019 - 21:39
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Darkatmosphere
post Sat, 2 Feb 2019 - 22:00
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QUOTE (EPBA @ Sat, 2 Feb 2019 - 21:39) *
Hi I'm new to this but seen a few forums and wondered if anyone can help me at all...

Today I received a letter by post to say that my license has been revoked and to return my license back to DVLA as I have 6 points on my license, this left me completely confused as it's the first I've even known of any of this! So I rang DVLA straight away to ask why this has happened they said it's an MS90 and I've failed to give identification of some sort on something that occurred on the 18th June 2018, she couldn't tell me exactly what and said to ring the courts which I tried to do earlier today, but they're closed so now I'm left unknown as to why (until Monday) this has happened I've had nothing to tell me this was going to happen nothing to say I've done anything wrong no letters nor phone calls until today when I received my letter to say my license is revoked and I cannot drive 5 days after the date of when the letter was sent to me.

I'm devastated as looking about it seems it could be something to do with speeding/running a red light which apperently happened 7 months ago, I have 3 children under 5 single mother and it's going to put a massive strain on getting them to and from school as it's miles away from home, and looking at this letter it states I will need to do my theory and practical again, can any one help? If this is a speeding offence but I knew nothing of it up until today when I've received the DVLA letter can I fight against this? What are my rights here? Have I lost my license all together?

What is the address on the V5C for your car if your the registered keeper if not who is? Lease co, Dad, mam, brother, didn't receive one from the DVLA for it etc?

Whats the Doc Ref on page 2 if you have possession of it?

I guess your a new driver still on a probationary period?

If you genuinely did have no prior knowledge of this, then you can make a statutory declaration to the courts.



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The Rookie
post Sat, 2 Feb 2019 - 22:05
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As you were unaware of proceedings you can make something known as a statutory declaration and then your case will revert back to the summons stage and allow you to contest the accusation.

The MS90 code is for failing to comply with a Section172 request to name the driver when a vehicle has been caught by a speed or red oight camera.

You’ll either have got the request as a named driver or as the registered keeper, if you have your own car is the V5c registration document up to date and the address 100% correct? Don’t assume CHECK, did you buy it sometime around May or move at that time? The S172 offence will have occurred about 4-6 weeks after the original speeding/red light offnece usually.


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EPBA
post Sat, 2 Feb 2019 - 22:08
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It's a car that I no longer have I sold it in August time but the V5C address was from the house I was living at, at the time (I've moved home since and gotten a new car) when I got the new car the address was changed to the one I'm currently at now, the address on my license is at this new address too, I genuinly knew nothing about this up until DVLA sent me a letter today, everything is in my name only. No I passed the 2 years of new driver June 28th 1018 so has this happened a few weeks later I wouldn't of had the license revoked I've been driving 3 years this June.
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Darkatmosphere
post Sat, 2 Feb 2019 - 22:20
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QUOTE (EPBA @ Sat, 2 Feb 2019 - 22:08) *
It's a car that I no longer have I sold it in August time but the V5C address was from the house I was living at, at the time (I've moved home since and gotten a new car) when I got the new car the address was changed to the one I'm currently at now, the address on my license is at this new address too, I genuinly knew nothing about this up until DVLA sent me a letter today, everything is in my name only. No I passed the 2 years of new driver June 28th 1018 so has this happened a few weeks later I wouldn't of had the license revoked I've been driving 3 years this June.

If you passed your test 28th June 2016 and you did something allegedly on 18th June 2018 you would be within the probationary period as the probationary period would have ended on June 28th 2018, that's a little bit of bad timing there if I got you correctly this is why they said you would have to retake both your tests, as it goes form the date of offence and not the date of notification or conviction.

You cannot drive now you have the notification, and you wont be able to drive until the magistrate give you the nod that the conviction is set aside and proceedings are reset.

When did you move? could you have reasonably returned for post? Did you have a postal diversion in place so all new post went to your new address? have you been back to collect post?

when in august did you sell the car, did you send off the V5C with the new keeper details and get the letter saying they had changed the details over?

This post has been edited by Darkatmosphere: Sat, 2 Feb 2019 - 22:25


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EPBA
post Sat, 2 Feb 2019 - 22:44
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I know, just a few weeks short of passing the 2 year period but as I was selling the car and then 6 weeks later bought my new car I didn't change address over on the v5c until then, I was living in a private rented property had issues with the landlord there so left fast and handed the house keys over once I moved so there was no way of me getting back there and getting to any post I could of possibly has that went there I moved in September all details on v5c are up to date with my new car and on the license but looks to be in the time period of when it happened and me already having moved the post must have gone to the old address therefor me now not knowing anything about it until today from DVLA.
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TonyS
post Sun, 3 Feb 2019 - 09:58
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To elaborate on The Rookie's point, the actual s172 conviction would have been at least 28 days after the red light offence, maybe longer. That's because it occurs only after the request for driver details wasn't responded to within 28 days.
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EPBA
post Sun, 3 Feb 2019 - 10:57
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Hi, yes I can understand that and why it's happened but I haven't known anything about this up until yesterday from DVLA, now my license is revoked I'm not sure what my next step is? Do I contact the courts and let them know I haven't had any letters etc and only just found out about this yesterday? Will i get a date to go back to be able to explain myself?
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Irksome
post Sun, 3 Feb 2019 - 11:14
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You've been given the advice, you need to perform a statutory declaration, which will then reset the matter back to court.

What date did you sell the vehicle?
What date did you receive confirmation from the DVLA that you were no longer the registered keeper?


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PePiPoo will likely close in October due to issues beyond the control of any contributor to this forum.

You are encouraged to seek advice at https://www.ftla.uk/speeding-and-other-criminal-offences/ where the vast majority of the experts here have moved over to already.
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andy_foster
post Sun, 3 Feb 2019 - 11:30
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Starting from the beginning of the process...

There was an allegation of a motoring offence (usually speeding or running a red light) on an as yet unknown date.
A NIP (including a requirement to provide information under s. 172 RTA 1988) would have been sent to the RK's last known address (the address on the V5C) to be delivered within 14 days of the alleged offence.
At the end of 27 days after the NIP was delivered (presumed to be 2 working days after posting), the s. 172 offence is committed, subject to any applicable defence.
Court proceedings would have been instigated some time within 6 months of the s. 172 offence having been apparently committed, and the paperwork (almost certainly a Single Justice Procedure Notice) sent to the address the NIP was sent to (unless the force in question have diligence procedures - which they seemingly don't)
After not responding to the SJPN, you were convicted in your absence of failing to provide the driver's details and given 6 points and a fine.

As you were unaware of the proceedings, if you make a statutory declaration under s. 14 Magistrates Courts Act 1980 within 21 days of becoming aware of the court proceedings, the court must quash the conviction. This would basically take the process back to the start of the court proceedings, and you would usually then be asked to enter a plea to whatever charges were instigated - the s. 172 charge and usually the original offence. It is often possible to do a deal to drop the s. 172 charge in return for pleading guilty to the original offence.


Depending on why the s. 172 requirement (NIP) was not received, you may or may not have a viable defence to that charge. Your description of events is somewhat "woolly" - it might help if you could set out a clear timeline. It would also probably help if you could check your endorsements on the DVLA website.


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EPBA
post Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 14:25
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Thank you to those who've responded to my post and given advice I really appreciate it.

I'm stuck in a situation at the moment as I've contacted the courts they won't give me exact details of what happened on the 18th June 2018 all they've said is it will be to do with speeding and that I've not responded to letters etc to which I knew nothing about up until Saturday just gone when DVLA contacted me to tell me my license is revoked, so i asked the courts if I could do a statutory declaration they said yes and they will send me over details to fill out over email (this morning) I gave my email and I've had no email from them so I've rang back to say this and they said yes we'll send it over now, this was 4 hours ago still .. nothing they also said it's a 4 week wait for statutory declarations which is why I'm desperate to just get this form filled and sent straight back but they seem to just keep fobbing me off whenever I call, how am I supposed to do a stat dec if they aren't communicating with me over this?
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The Rookie
post Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 14:35
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Do,one with a solicitor, it costs less than £10, you then serve it on the court and they have to action it, as soon as they inform DVLA you’ll be able to keep driving.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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peterguk
post Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 14:36
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QUOTE (EPBA @ Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 14:25) *
this was 4 hours ago still .


I would not xpect a court to respond instantly. I appreciate the urgency, but courts do not work at that speed.


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Jlc
post Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 14:49
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The courts are busy - it's quite normal for it to take weeks to get the SD done.

As already pointed out, seek a local solicitor that can witness your statement. You have to drive the process I'm afraid as courts don't provide 'customer service' as such.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Irksome
post Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 14:52
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As Rookie points out - you can speed up the process by swearing the declaration at a Solictor, but some courts appear to be reluctant to accept Stat Decs served in this way (see this thread by a frequent poster here)



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PePiPoo will likely close in October due to issues beyond the control of any contributor to this forum.

You are encouraged to seek advice at https://www.ftla.uk/speeding-and-other-criminal-offences/ where the vast majority of the experts here have moved over to already.
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Jlc
post Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 16:03
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QUOTE (Irksome @ Mon, 4 Feb 2019 - 14:52) *
...but some courts appear to be reluctant to accept Stat Decs served in this way

That does appear to happen but there doesn't appear to be any lawful basis to support this.

I'd book in an appointment with the court as a backstop - this is going to be weeks and not hours... Then also try submitting a witnessed statement from a local solicitor.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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EPBA
post Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 11:06
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Hi all,

Thank you very much for the advice so far much appreciated.

I am just over 3 weeks into having lost my license last I've heard contact was a quest for information form to fill out for a statutory declaration the court said it would be a 3 to 4 weeks wait so I rang them up this morning to ask how much longer it would be to receive my court appointment they then said we're only just getting to people from 31st December so it'll be another 8 weeks before I'll hear back, so I've then gone on to contact a local solicitors to see if I can do a SD with them to hand to the courts to hopefully have this process quicker, the solicitor then said if you do a SD with us it'll cost you £150? Is this correct? Do they need to do the SD for me and witness it? Or can I get a SD and have them witness it etc? Please help I'm struggling a lot at the moment being off road on my own with 3 young children it's been a nightmare trying to get about and them to school just hoping to try and get this done. Thank you.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 11:50
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QUOTE (EPBA @ Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 11:06) *
the solicitor then said if you do a SD with us it'll cost you £150? Is this correct?

Not correct no, its capped.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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southpaw82
post Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 12:13
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 11:50) *
QUOTE (EPBA @ Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 11:06) *
the solicitor then said if you do a SD with us it'll cost you £150? Is this correct?

Not correct no, its capped.

Only the act of acting as a commissioner is capped. A few can be charged for drawing up the SD. If the OP wants to get it sworn in front of a commissioner I’m happy to provide a template.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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EPBA
post Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 12:22
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So I've just contacted another solicitors explained the whole situation and I feel as if they're asking me for advice not the other way around and it's been like this with the other 3 places I've rang it's starting to stress me out as I feel I'm not getting anywhere with this, the guy basically said there's no point me taking it to court as not updating my v5c was my own fault and I'll still be walking out with the revoke and 6 points on my license told me to just go and do my theory and practical again, is this possible would I be wasting my time walking in to be coming away with the same result? I'm wanting to do the SD and just have someone witness and sign this for me happy to pay the small fee I just can't afford to be paying out £150, I would massively appreciate the help on how to get hold of a SD to take it to a solicitor and witness and sign. Thank you.
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