PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Advice on Court Date
Khalil
post Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 15:45
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 4 Nov 2018
Member No.: 100,768



Hi

Hoping for some advice and feedback with people that may have had the same experience

- Had 6 points on my license already
- May 2018 received 3 points NIP for A412 Uxbridge Rd, submitted forms pleading guilty as driver(40 speed limit doing 55mph)
- June 2018, same road got another 3 points but further down the road(40 speed limit, doing 54mph)
- Submitted a letter on 2nd NIP with a letter requesting they could show leniency and offer me a course(only doing 1 mph over the limit), but got a letter back saying they cannot do anything
- Got a SJPN for both NIP to be heard in Court on 9th Nov at Oxford Court, completed a mitigation circumstances mentioning things like how i travel to work every day and need a car, my wife drives but she is on a school run and cannot drop me. How it would be a great issue if i lost my license


The above is a quick summary, but i understand i attend court, i plead guilty(as i have done already). I get an option to say something, try to plead with court to show leniency on my sentence

Any pointers or assistance is appreciated pls

thank you in advance


This post has been edited by Khalil: Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 15:47
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 15:45
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Jlc
post Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 16:12
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



If you reach 12 points within 3 years then you face a totting ban of 6 months.

You will be given the opportunity to submit an exceptional hardship plea to reduce that ban, potentially to none. The impact on others carries more weight.

How the points were accumulated is irrelevant - there’s no ‘leniency’ angle per se. Expect to be asked awkward questions about your travel arrangements - you’ll have to show they are truly exceptional and not just an inconvenience.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 16:13


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 16:26
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



As JLC sways you have to show EXCEPTIONAL hardship, data suggests that circa 25% of totters have an exceptional hardship plea accepted (no data on the ones declined).

If your partner can drive it suggests your only issue is likely to be your commute so you need to show what alternatives there are (public transport, cycling, walking, taxi, work mate giving you a lift) and why they aren’t feasible, even then the court may not consider it EXCEPTIONAL.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Khalil
post Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 16:30
Post #4


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 4 Nov 2018
Member No.: 100,768



QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 16:26) *
As JLC sways you have to show EXCEPTIONAL hardship, data suggests that circa 25% of totters have an exceptional hardship plea accepted (no data on the ones declined).

If your partner can drive it suggests your only issue is likely to be your commute so you need to show what alternatives there are (public transport, cycling, walking, taxi, work mate giving you a lift) and why they aren’t feasible, even then the court may not consider it EXCEPTIONAL.


thank you

QUOTE (Jlc @ Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 16:12) *
If you reach 12 points within 3 years then you face a totting ban of 6 months.

You will be given the opportunity to submit an exceptional hardship plea to reduce that ban, potentially to none. The impact on others carries more weight.

How the points were accumulated is irrelevant - there’s no ‘leniency’ angle per se. Expect to be asked awkward questions about your travel arrangements - you’ll have to show they are truly exceptional and not just an inconvenience.


Thank you
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 17:03
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



There are no downsides in attempting an EH plea but be prepared. Expect lots of questions and have the answers ready as Rookie mentions above. Don't dwell on how the points were accumulated - just your situation.

Simplistically you are to be punished but the potential saviour of the EH is when others are impacted who are 'innocent'. Even losing your job in itself may not be considered truly exceptional.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
peterguk
post Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 17:31
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,735
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



And remember not to drive to the court hearing.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 17:41
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



QUOTE (peterguk @ Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 17:31) *
And remember not to drive to the court hearing.

Or more precisely, do not expect to drive back.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
andy_foster
post Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 18:28
Post #8


Member
Group Icon

Group: Life Member
Posts: 24,214
Joined: 9 Sep 2004
From: Reading
Member No.: 1,624



There is no such thing as a "3 points NIP". If we have to guess as to what actually happened, our advice will at best be 'woolly'.

Were all of the offences within 3 years of each other? N.B. Only the dates of the offences matter for totting, not the date of NIP issuing, fixed penalty or conviction.

What charge(s) are on the SJPN(s)? Taking a woolly guess, I suspect that there might be an s. 172 charge (or 2) in there.


--------------------
Andy

Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dwaynedouglas
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 07:45
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 96
Joined: 9 Nov 2016
Member No.: 88,346



QUOTE (Khalil @ Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 16:45) *
- May 2018 received 3 points NIP for A412 Uxbridge Rd, submitted forms pleading guilty as driver(40 speed limit doing 55mph)
- June 2018, same road got another 3 points but further down the road(40 speed limit, doing 54mph)

Any pointers or assistance is appreciated pls


55 in 40 is 15mph over the limit
54 in 40 is 14mph over the limit

Enforcement usually starts at 10% + 2mph (so 46 in a 40), and offers of SAC usually end at 10% + 9mph (so 53 in a 40), so bear this in mind in the future.

I haven't been through the totting up process, but things usually suggested on this site for an EH plea are:

- Impact on family (wife, children, parents etc.)
- Exceptional impact on journeys (you live in a remote area with no bus routes, trains, bikes etc.)
- Impact on employees if you're an employer and people could lose their jobs as a result of this.

Be prepared to be quizzed on these too, for example:

'If you can't take your parents to their hospital appointments, do you have siblings, relatives or close friends who could?'

Hope this helps.

*Edited because I don't know what I'm talking about (Thanks JLC and Rookie).

This post has been edited by Dwaynedouglas: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 07:27


--------------------
I'm not a lawyer or legally trained, my opinion is based on my experience - follow at your own risk.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 07:53
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 41,510
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: Planet Earth
Member No.: 49,223



Enforcement is at +10%+2...

+9 is for a course.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Khalil
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 15:57
Post #11


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 4 Nov 2018
Member No.: 100,768



QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sun, 4 Nov 2018 - 18:28) *
There is no such thing as a "3 points NIP". If we have to guess as to what actually happened, our advice will at best be 'woolly'.

Were all of the offences within 3 years of each other? N.B. Only the dates of the offences matter for totting, not the date of NIP issuing, fixed penalty or conviction.

What charge(s) are on the SJPN(s)? Taking a woolly guess, I suspect that there might be an s. 172 charge (or 2) in there.


Thank you all for you advice so far,

I can confirm all offences where within 3yrs
Attached is scan SJPN Charge Sheet(sorry scan isn't great)

Regarding the EH, the points that I was thinking of raising where

- Myself and my wife to drive, but as the wife has children school drop off and her own class she cannot drop me off. She cannot drop/pick me up
- Public transport is possible, but as I start at 8am till 4:45pm, it would mean I would need to leave home at 5:30am each morning and would not get back until 7:30pm(that is based on good run)
- Public transport involves 4-5 changes one-way, based on this I have greater chance of delays/missing my journey
- I am self-employed and wife and daughter work part in the business, if I was to lose my job (current contract), this would affect them
- I can get another job, but at moment the market is not very good I am looking at no obtaining another role until mar 2019
- My business means I need to visit other clients, this can be evening and weekend(to be honest they may say my wife could take me, so may not mention this)
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
Attached Image
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 16:43
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



That’s not the strongest EH case.

How far is it to work? As your self employed surely you have leeway?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
666
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 17:08
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,300
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Member No.: 47,602



OP, any reason the kids can’t walk or cycle?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Khalil
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 18:11
Post #14


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 4 Nov 2018
Member No.: 100,768



QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 16:43) *
That’s not the strongest EH case.

How far is it to work? As your self employed surely you have leeway?


Thanks, Hi work is approx 30 miles each way, being contractor i am am expected on site and cannot work from home

Kids cannot walk or cycle to school as School is 5 miles(each way from home), bus is not an option for them as it is not easy to get a bus.

Thanks rookie for pointing my mistakes

Thank u

This post has been edited by Khalil: Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 18:53
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 18:20
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



So your a contractor, not working for yourself.



This post has been edited by The Rookie: Tue, 6 Nov 2018 - 12:04


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dwaynedouglas
post Tue, 6 Nov 2018 - 07:44
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 96
Joined: 9 Nov 2016
Member No.: 88,346



QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 08:53) *
Enforcement is at +10%+2...

+9 is for a course.


Dammit!

I'll edit to reflect.

Thanks


--------------------
I'm not a lawyer or legally trained, my opinion is based on my experience - follow at your own risk.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Tue, 6 Nov 2018 - 07:56
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (Dwaynedouglas @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 08:45) *
Enforcement usually starts at 10% + 2mph (so 46 in a 40), and offers of SAC usually END at 10% + 9mph (so 53 in a 40), so bear this in mind in the future.

FTFY


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
666
post Tue, 6 Nov 2018 - 08:26
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,300
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Member No.: 47,602



QUOTE (Khalil @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 19:11) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 16:43) *
That’s not the strongest EH case.

How far is it to work? As your self employed surely you have leeway?


Thanks, Hi work is approx 30 miles each way, being contractor i am am expected on site and cannot work from home

Kids cannot walk or cycle to school as School is 5 miles(each way from home), bus is not an option for them as it is not easy to get a bus.

Your local authority is obliged to provide transport if kids are more than 3(?) miles from nearest suitable school.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Khalil
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 13:24
Post #19


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 4 Nov 2018
Member No.: 100,768



QUOTE (666 @ Tue, 6 Nov 2018 - 08:26) *
QUOTE (Khalil @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 19:11) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 16:43) *
That’s not the strongest EH case.

How far is it to work? As your self employed surely you have leeway?


Thanks, Hi work is approx 30 miles each way, being contractor i am am expected on site and cannot work from home

Kids cannot walk or cycle to school as School is 5 miles(each way from home), bus is not an option for them as it is not easy to get a bus.

Your local authority is obliged to provide transport if kids are more than 3(?) miles from nearest suitable school.


thanks, but we decided to send the children to school outside our borough and thus we cannot use this service.

thank for pointing out mistake

This post has been edited by Khalil: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 12:01
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 15:05
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



QUOTE (Khalil @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 13:24) *
thanks, but we deceived to send the children to school outside our borough and thus we cannot use this service.

You probably shouldn’t admit that on a public forum.


--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 29th March 2024 - 07:01
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here