PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Cheltenham Temporary Bus Lane - Bus Gate PCN
edsr
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 18:08
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5
Joined: 16 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,594



So according to the PCN in the post, we have a new bus lane in town.

Except the words BUS LANE are not anywhere on the road. Nothing saying 'new road layout ahead' - which I'd have paid far more attention to.

I must have been living under a rock as according to Google this has caused uproar, and as such I must have driven through this countless times already (I wonder how many more PCNs are in the post).

I have lived in the town all my life and perhaps that's why I have failed to notice it.

Also the planter in the middle of a highway with (road markings going the wrong) way serves to distract the eye (I remember seeing the planter, not the road signs) and confuse the motorist.

This was a genuine mistake. I actually drove back into town and took photographs of the whole run-up to the bus lane and the area the camera is positioned, as I could not understand how I missed the signage. Apparently the whole scheme is temporary.

According to https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/...as-been-1637268 the council said "These new cameras are helping us enforce the existing restrictions to this bus lane. The times are not changing." “However, we appreciate that mistakes may happen so will be issuing warning notices rather than penalty fines at first.”

I have not had a warning, but am certain of driving through the area previously.

Any help on whether this (or any other PCNs issued by CBC) is legitimate, would be much appreciated. Will link to this post from other channels if it is deemed unenforceable.

Thanks!

Photos:
https://ibb.co/dvOJbe
https://ibb.co/jXZhKz
https://ibb.co/nGVybe
https://ibb.co/c9yRez
https://ibb.co/h3cdbe
https://ibb.co/fwdRez
https://ibb.co/mqKfpz
https://ibb.co/kNmh2K

This post has been edited by edsr: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 18:35
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 7)
Advertisement
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 18:08
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Incandescent
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 20:18
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,223
Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Member No.: 54,455



Your first pic shows a sign for a traffic restriction 25 yds ahead, but your next pic of the signs themselves they are too far away to read the text, but there is a ban on cars and motorbikes of some kind. Not sure what you're trying to show on the next pic of a No Entry sign, or the one after, of a bus.
The next pic shows Bus Gate signs in the distance by the bus, as does the next pic, then there is a pic of the signs much closer with what looks like a time plate to indicate when the bus gate is operational as does the next photo.

We need to know what the first traffic restriction sign shows.

Looking at this it seems to be a devious trap designed to make money, because there is no obvious way to reverse direction on seeing the bus gate signs, as the street is one-way, and no advance warning of the signs at a point where the motorist could reverse direction, or turn off. However it is probably down to bovine incompetence, but this never stops them making money !

If it were me, I'd take them all the way to adjudication, but you'd have to risk the full PCN amount and lose the discount. The signage is typically poor as we have seen so often.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 20:19
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
disgrunt
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 20:35
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 179
Joined: 8 Dec 2012
Member No.: 58,778



Living locally it's not a devious trick to make money, it's just a really stupid restriction and poorly signed. It's a oneway system and I don't think you can turn right after you've gone past the 25yrd ahead sign. The reason you can go straight on is to go into an underground car park for an office building just before the restriction starts. Coming from the other way (I.e. From the right after the restriction starts sign) you've got lots more warnings including red road closed signs like you get for road works.



Also, the ops link to the news article is for a completely different bus lane in cheltenham. (S)he has been caught at Boots corner.

https://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/roads-pa...s-corner-trial/

Looking at the last pic it suggests it's 10am to 6pm only, however the only ref to hours I saw was loading 6pm to 10am.

This post has been edited by disgrunt: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 20:42
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
edsr
post Fri, 21 Sep 2018 - 21:31
Post #4


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5
Joined: 16 Feb 2018
Member No.: 96,594



Thanks Both,

I think I will contest this as a matter of principle.

The grounds on which I plan to contest are:

No bus lane markings
No ‘new road layout ahead’ signs
Inability to U turn legally on approaching the gate
Disparity between signage approaching from one way system vs the route I took
Confusing approach - planter in road.
NEW road markings show ability to drive backward on what was a one way system, but planter contradicts that and the layout is unclear which distracts the eye from the signage that should be observed.
Paint all over the road.
Old road markings inadequate
Ability for the ONLY Bus Gate marking to be obscured by any traffic passing the bus stop.
Irrelevant signage on approach - warning about “buses likely to be stopping”
Signage easily obscured by buses queuing to stop (or parked vans!)
Some signage not at 90 degrees to the pavement.

Also thanks for spotting the incorrect link. Here’s the correct one: https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/...s-boots-1892857

Any further thoughts appreciated
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Sat, 29 Sep 2018 - 13:00
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,971
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



I would suggest you get hold of, and show us, the video of the contravention. Also post a link to the location on Google Street View. Also, why is it you can't legally do a U-turn? I don't see any no-U turn signs in your pictures.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
HectorSJ
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 21:26
Post #6


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1
Joined: 11 Oct 2018
Member No.: 100,347



So did you contest this PCN and what was the outcome?

Did you have other PCNs in the post?

I am interested because I have exactly the same experience of you but one month later. Last week I received a PCN for this bus lane and called the council who explained it was a new system being tested. I promptly paid the first PCN and got the council staff member to guide me to a page on their website showing a map of the restricted zone because I couldn't get my head around it.

I have now, one week later, received another PCN. The notice contravention date is 13/9/2018 and the date of issue and postage is 10/10/19. I am concerned that I have another handful of these PCNs heading my way because I had no idea this was a restricted zone.

After receiving the first PCN I have immediately stopped driving through this new bus lane. However, I suspect there is a backlog of several which I will receive dated before I received my first one, since the time lag is just under one month.

Can I successfully argue that the 2nd PCN onwards should be voided as I have only been advised of them after I have acknowledged and paid the first one? i.e. I have had no chance to amend my driving behaviour until I receive the 1st PCN last week.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mad Mick V
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 06:53
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6,645
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Member No.: 11,355



The PCN in my view is a nullity if it asks for payment to be made to APCOA --the bus lane legislation states that payment must be made to the Enforcement Authority. It throws all statutory timings out of kilter otherwise.

Second, I have real doubts that an ETRO can be amended in the way they have done without a complete new Order:-

https://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/media/15...ce-bus-lane.pdf

And last but not least, the York bus lane case (Lendal Bridge) concluded that a bus lane cannot be established if there is a host of exemptions ---- so getting a contravention for being in a bus lane cannot be sustained IMO if the ETRO lists 10/12 exemptions.

I think this one will give us a lot of fun!

Mick
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mdann52
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 17:13
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 167
Joined: 19 Aug 2016
Member No.: 86,499



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 29 Sep 2018 - 14:00) *
I would suggest you get hold of, and show us, the video of the contravention. Also post a link to the location on Google Street View. Also, why is it you can't legally do a U-turn? I don't see any no-U turn signs in your pictures.



It's a one-way street (GSV) - there is proably space to turn just before the "flying motorbike" signs though

There is a way to escape before reaching this however (GSV), and the council have installed a load of cones and extra warning signs due to people driving through - IMO, the run up to this is fairly well signed now - you drive past at least 3 warning signs before the restriction itself on either approach.

This post has been edited by mdann52: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 17:15
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Sunday, 21st October 2018 - 13:26
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.